--- Brion Vibber <brion(a)pobox.com> wrote:
Robert wrote:
[snip]
Most English speakers use the names "Gaia
theory"
and "Gaia
hypothesis" interchangably. They do make a
distinction
between Lovelock's Gaia theory and
Margulis's Gaia
theory,
but not with the terminology she uses.
Further, we *already* have an article on this
subject
[[Gaia theory (biology)]] that discusses both
points of
view in detail. Yet Anthere keeps insisting that
we
have
THREE articles on this same topic, in the same
detail.
[snip]
Without devolving into flames and calls for banning,
could you please
answer the following questions?
a) What's wrong with having three articles
(overview, specific on
Lovelock, specific on Margulis)?
and
b) What terminology would you recommend, and on what
basis?
And Anthere, can you please answer these questions?
a) What's wrong with one big article covering both
these two specific
versions and other variants?
and
b) What's the basis for the particular page titles
you're advancing?
That would go a long way towards sorting this out.
-- brion vibber (brion @
pobox.com)
Historic.
There were initially 3 articles. One was specifically
about Margulis recent Theory. One about Gaia
Hypothesis (as proposed by Lovelock) and one general
article, where all the different aspects were
proposed, historical and other theories on the matter,
as well as political, mysticism and sociological
aspect.
At that point, I had basically never participated to
any of these articles, except for removing the [[Daisy
World]], and making it a stand alone article. Until
now, no one has challenged that move that I know of.
Needless to say, I did not "made" any of the original
titles as Royal We claims it, since I was not yet on
Wikipedia then.
When Royal We decided all articles should be united in
one, some merged were done, resulting in three
articles. A general one (with mostly political,
sociological...aspects), another one on pure
biological aspects (the scientific one), and the
Hypothesis was kept as it was. Unlike what Royal We
claims, I was *not* the author of these moves, nor of
the new names proposed.
When that was done, User Royal We didnot revert it,
which I supposed meant he agreed with it. That was
less than a month ago. Now, he is claiming I made the
renaming, I made the move, and he never agreed upon
these.
He is currently suggesting that we move away the
general article, to replace it with the content of the
scientific one. This is very wrong. This is wrong
because there is more to the Gaia theories than just
*science*. And there is a strong risk, that most of
the general article will be cut into parts and made
inintelligeable, just because some people consider it
is not a scientific theory, and as such, should not be
considered unless proved. Of course, it is typically a
theory difficult to prove. But, that does not mean the
theories do not exist.
And that is no reason to disperse all the
non-scientific points in other articles to keep just
the scientific point. I think that here, that is the
scientism of User Royal We that makes him try to push
away all non-scientific points away. This is bad.
For this reason, I think keeping the scientific
theories *apart* from other perspectives is a best
choice, to avoid mixing scientific perspectives from
others.
The second point : the most famous of all Gaia
theories is Lovelock Hypothesis. Mind you, this is
under this name I believe it is most well-known. This
is not a crazy suggestion of mine to call it that way.
This is what can be read in articles on the topic, as
well as in Lovelock book. Suffice it to read a bit
litterature on the topic to realise that.
I think that since it is the most famous theory, that
is in fact the one most readers will look for, when
searching information on the topic. For this reason, I
believe it is a good idea to have an article named
"Gaia Hypothesis". It is likely the name under which
they know this theory, I would say it would be
confusing to redirect them in a more general article
dealing with every aspect of scientific views of the
Gaia topics. I am just trying to avoid losing them
here.
User Royal We claim I want to put only Margulis on the
Gaia theory (biology) article. I know not where he
took that idea. There is nothing further of my mind.
This one is meant to discuss the various claims made
on the topic, influential Gaia, Gaia co-evolution,
Gaia homeorhetic, Gaia homeostatic, geophysiological
Gaia, optimizing Gaia.
To detail, from the weaker claims to the stronger
claims, which are the *scientific* points supporting
each of the way the Gaia theories have been expressed.
Of course, Lovelock Hypothesis is part of this. But
only part of it. And I fear a reader will get confused
in all the theories, while in truth, he just initially
wanted to have a clear idea of what Lovelock
Hypothesis was on the topic.
Hence, my suggestion that we keep an specific article
on the Hypothesis, rather than just redirecting to a
more complex article.
Now, I don't know what is best. Should this one be
just a short one, giving the basics and the general
one give the details, or should it be the opposite ?
This is totally open to discussion.
But, just making a redirect of the article without
initial discussion, without even keeping the last
changes made to the article, it is *not* good.
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