I propose we run a study. We will survey random editors and ask them if
they realize that there is a chance they are leaking enough information for
their identity to be revealed. *Even if they are logged in.*
Regarding comparisons - institutions have structure, and if there is a
structure mapping, then it's a matter of fact. A given mapping will have
strengths and weaknesses. You may prefer one mapping to another. If you
have reasons for preferring one mapping (other than that it offends you),
I'm all ears. But be aware: simply changing the vocabulary that you use to
describe the space doesn't mean that two different descriptions of
institutions aren't in fact describing a construct that is more similar
than different, or that is similar in important ways.
This is all to say, there are often reasons that institutions like the NSA
and WMF are structured the way they are. Given the investment in the topic,
it's probably worth exploring how the institutional structures emerged. But
given the investment, confirmation bias may prevail in this case: even if
there are important similarities, nobody wants to look like a hypocrite.
That's OK, though. Much as I am invested in Wikipedia and appreciate the
WMF, if I turn out to be a hypocrite, *I* will call myself one. Just as I
will do it to others.
Best,
Brian
"*Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends.*" -
Diogenes the Cynic
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Or perhaps you're reading far too much into it,
and in the process,
being incredibly rude to the WMF employees reading this thread, who
are people too, and don't particularly appreciate being compared to
the NSA. If you're trying to have a constructive discussion, you
should pick a better format and attitude.
On 29 March 2015 at 19:02, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu>
wrote:
The notice just says that the IP is public. Most
people have no idea what
that means.
It will absolutely make those problems harder. Perhaps it is the
Foundation's trusted role to hide that information from the public and be
trusted with it on the backend. This institutional design sounds similar
to
another institution in certain ways..
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Dustin Muniz <dahowe(a)bsugmail.net>
wrote:
> People are made aware with each edit as an I am that their information
is
> publicly available. What concerns me about
removing IP information is
that
> it'll remove our ability to fight spam,
detect socks, and respond to
> emergency@ issues, unless I've missed something?
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Brian J Mingus
> Date:03-29-2015 4:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: David Carson
> Cc: English Wikipedia
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers
>
> Wikipedia is set up such that if you don't take the measures mentioned
in
> the OP, you are dox'ing yourself. Users
are not aware of this.
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:33 PM, David Carson <carson63000(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Wikipedia:Free speech" (
> >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech) is probably
worth a
> > read.
> >
> >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech
> >
> > It's not directly about privacy but I think it clearly covers the
ground
> > that Wikipedia is a project to create an
online encyclopedia, not an
> > experiment in radical free speech. The system is set up to facilitate
> that
> > goal.
> >
> > If you think that recording IP addresses is invasive, then you should
> > probably be publishing your content on your own website, not
Wikipedia.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David...
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Brian J Mingus <
> brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> In general people do not read privacy policies, nor do they
understand
> >> what
> >> IP addresses are or what you can do with them.
> >>
> >> But if you recall, I simply stated that recording IP addresses is
> >> invasive.
> >> And it is.
> >>
> >> This is especially true when you know that your recordings are
> faciliating
> >> the active de-anonymization of people who are editing Wikipedia. Not
> just
> >> de-anonymization, but often public shaming.
> >>
> >> For WMF, the principle of neutrality clearly trumps the principles of
> >> privacy and free speech. For the NSA, substitute security for
> neutrality.
> >> It's hypocritical.
> >>
> >> Luckily, it's easy to fix. Just stuff the ip fields with random
numbers
> >> and
> >> deal with the fallout. Stop tracking people.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > In order:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Yes, the WMF is suing the NSA. There are a few threads/blog
posts
> >> > about this people here can
point you to.
> >> > 2. Brian: The NSA needs to store data without the permission or
> >> > consent of the people generating it, sometimes through forcible
> >> > interception, decryption and the introduction and maintenance of
> >> > software exploits that allow them to do this but also allow any
other
> >> > reasonably technical nation or
non-nation actor who is paying
> >> > attention to exploit the same vulnerability, keeping this data for
an
> >> > indefinite period, with very
little legal or political oversight,
in
> >> > order to stop terrorism, where
very little evidence exists that
this
> >> > has helped in any way.
> >> >
> >> > The WMF needs to store data for a 90 day period, which is
explicitly
> >> > set down in a privacy policy
that is transparent, human-readable,
> >> > linked from every edit interface, written with the involvement of
the
> >> > people whose data is being
stored, administered by a committee of
> >> > people who come from this population of editors, and explicitly
sets
> >> > out what the data may or may
not be used for, even within the
> >> > Wikimedia Foundation, in order to stop vandalism, where multiple
> >> > scientific studies have validated the hypothesis that being able to
> >> > make rangeblocks and prohibit sockpuppetry is beneficial to the
> >> > community we are all a part of and the wider population of readers.
> >> >
> >> > That's what's actually going on, here. If you thing these
situations
> >> > are roughly analogous,
that's your prerogative. If you think the
> >> > storage of this data is unnecessary, I recommend you go to your
local
> >> > project and explain to them
that being able to checkuser potential
> >> > sockpuppets or hard-block users is not needed: gaining consensus
there
> >> > would be a good starting point
to changing this.
> >> >
> >> > On 29 March 2015 at 11:57, James Farrar <james.farrar(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > > Wikipedia is suing the NSA? Seriously?
> >> > > On 28 Mar 2015 11:23, "Brian J Mingus" <
brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> It has worked up to now, but I'm thinking that, especially
given
> >> > Wikimedia
> >> > >> is suing the NSA, it is no longer justifiable. If the NSA
can't
> track
> >> > >> citizens, Wikimedia shouldn't be tracking them either.
Seems
simple
> >> :)
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Francesco Ariis <
fa-ml(a)ariis.it>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 01:19:35PM -0400, Brian J Mingus
wrote:
> > >> > > I think it's rather
curious that edits to Wikipedia aren't
> private.
> > Why
> > >> > log
> > >> > > the IP address? Why log anything? It's invasive.
> > >> >
> > >> > I guess it's a sensible choice against abuse (vandalism)
while
> still
> > >> > allowing non registered users editing rights
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > >> > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > >> >
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> > >> WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > >>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Keyes
> > Research Analyst
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> _______________________________________________
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