Future of this mailing list - WikiEN-l

Brian J Mingus

2 Dec 2 Dec

2:33 a.m.

What is there to say? On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Carcharoth <carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

If the moderators of this mailing list are around, would they or anyone else subscribed to the list be able to throw up some statistics about how much the traffic has declined over the past few years? I'm asking because looking at the archives, I think that last month (November 2014) was the first month since the mailing list started in September 2001 that there were no posts to the this mailing list (the wiki-en-l mailing list for discussion of matters related to the English Wikipedia). Admittedly, the list has been moribund for a long time, but I'm not sure exactly when the tipping point was reached (most meta-discussion seems to take place either on-wiki, at meta, or on the Wikimedia-l mailing list). What is the general view in the Wikimedia universe on maintaining low-traffic lists like this? It might be time to discuss what future this mailing list has. https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l Actually, looking at the list of moderators, how many of them are still around? Carcharoth _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Carcharoth

11:12 a.m.

The moderators of Wikimedia-l would need to agree to that. En-specific stuff would be off-topic there. Could someone cross-post this there if that is allowed? Also best to wait for one of the moderators here to weigh in. On Tuesday, December 2, 2014, FRED BAUDER <fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net> wrote:

...

How about disabling new posts, or forwarding new posts to Wikimedia-l,

making a referral to Wikimedia-l in the info, and leaving the archives open.

...

Fred Bauder On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 00:26:31 +0000 Carcharoth <carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > > If the moderators of this mailing list are around, would they or > anyone else subscribed to the list be able to throw up some statistics > about how much the traffic has declined over the past few years? I'm > asking because looking at the archives, I think that last month > (November 2014) was the first month since the mailing list started in > September 2001 that there were no posts to the this mailing list (the > wiki-en-l mailing list for discussion of matters related to the > English Wikipedia). > > Admittedly, the list has been moribund for a long time, but I'm not > sure exactly when the tipping point was reached (most meta-discussion > seems to take place either on-wiki, at meta, or on the Wikimedia-l > mailing list). What is the general view in the Wikimedia universe on > maintaining low-traffic lists like this? It might be time to discuss > what future this mailing list has. > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > Actually, looking at the list of moderators, how many of them are still

around?

...

Carcharoth _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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David Gerard

1:03 p.m.

On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

...

I kinda like the separation between cross-project and cross-language issues on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if nobody is interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it shut down.

Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually bothering. Not that there's much to do. In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on wikimedia-l, if at all.

...

I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead, except occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months.

+1 - d.

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Pine W

11:16 p.m.

I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity state. Pine On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth <carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of June and July? https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in the archives. :-) On 12/2/14, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

I kinda like the separation between cross-project and cross-language issues on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if nobody is interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it shut down.

Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually bothering. Not that there's much to do. In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on wikimedia-l, if at all. > I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead,

except

occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months.

+1 - d. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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David Gerard

4:07 p.m.

I think it's basically just me occasionally clearing the mod queue. I concur - mothball this list. On 13 August 2015 at 14:18, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I've given this some thought, and pretty much come to the conclusion that it would be better to make this list "historic" rather than keep it open. This is a reflection on the fact that almost none of the subscribers seem to use it, that there are almost no posts to it, that it can easily become a black hole where a "new" subscriber is unaware that the likelihood they'll get a response to their email, or one that is accurate or actionable, is very small. In an ideal world, this list would be active and lively and chock full of interesting discussions. That's not happening at all. It is better to consider this "legacy communication" and to lock it down (thus relieving the responsibilities of the probably one or two list admins who are actually moderating through the one real message out of thousands of spam messages). It is obvious that this list is no longer serving the purpose it once had. I'm not sure exactly where people are going to communicate now - there are lots of comments for a lot of blog posts, I understand facebook gets a fair number of responses, and some of the on-wiki noticeboard are quite active. But this list is no longer reaching the target community. Risker/Anne On 11 August 2015 at 17:16, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity state. Pine On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth <carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of June and July? https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in the archives. :-) On 12/2/14, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni > <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote: > >> I kinda like the separation between cross-project and cross-language >> issues >> on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if

nobody

>> is >> interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it

shut

> down. Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually bothering. Not that there's much to do. In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on wikimedia-l, if at all. > I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead,

except

> occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months. +1 - d. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Brian J Mingus

4:09 p.m.

By active I mean open. It has had periods of quietness. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu> wrote:

...

Leave the list open! There are lots of important people subscribed, and you never know when an interesting conversation will pop up. I'm the present moderator of a mailing list that's been active since 1988. When an interesting conversation starts, it's fascinating to see all the famous people chime in. That could happen here. Best, On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I've given this some thought, and pretty much come to the conclusion that it would be better to make this list "historic" rather than keep it open. This is a reflection on the fact that almost none of the subscribers seem to use it, that there are almost no posts to it, that it can easily become a black hole where a "new" subscriber is unaware that the likelihood they'll get a response to their email, or one that is accurate or actionable, is very small. In an ideal world, this list would be active and lively and chock full of interesting discussions. That's not happening at all. It is better to consider this "legacy communication" and to lock it down (thus relieving the responsibilities of the probably one or two list admins who are actually moderating through the one real message out of thousands of spam messages). It is obvious that this list is no longer serving the purpose it once had. I'm not sure exactly where people are going to communicate now - there are lots of comments for a lot of blog posts, I understand facebook gets a fair number of responses, and some of the on-wiki noticeboard are quite active. But this list is no longer reaching the target community. Risker/Anne On 11 August 2015 at 17:16, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity

state.

Pine On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth <

carcharothwp(a)googlemail.com>

wrote: > Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also > that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? > > I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for > some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of > June and July? > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ > > Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in > the archives. :-) > > On 12/2/14, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni > > <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote: > > > >> I kinda like the separation between cross-project and

cross-language

>> issues >> on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if

nobody

>> is >> interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it

shut

>> down. > > > Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually > bothering. Not that there's much to do. > > In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on > wikimedia-l, if at all. > > >> I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead, except >> occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months. > > > +1 > > > - d. > > _______________________________________________ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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David Gerard

15 Aug 15 Aug

12:18 a.m.

On 13 August 2015 at 16:01, Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:

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On 13 August 2015 at 15:08, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu> wrote:

...

> Leave the list open! There are lots of important people subscribed, and you > never know when an interesting conversation will pop up.

...

Sounds as if we need a moderator willing to take over from David G.

Ehh, I'm not tired of the job - it's not actually work, the "new posters on mod" thing works brilliantly to keep the spam and idiots out - though if anyone else who can work Mailman wants to go on that's fine too. I just think the list has run its useful course, and had done a few years ago. I suppose it's not actually harming anything being here. - d.

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