Or instead, we could give the trolls what they
actually deserve and kick them off the list, that way
we don't have the list overwhelmed with troll posts
that we have to pick through to get to the actual
discussions here. Turning the other cheek only goes
so far.
Dan Grey dangrey at
gmail.com:
Why don't people just give trolls what they deserve?
Do us all a favour, and when people post here only
looking for
trouble, give them what they deserve - the silent
treatment.
Dan
On 02/07/05, Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Calling someone a "fascist hag" is not a
crime
either,
but it is obnoxious namecalling that should not
belong
on this list. We shouldn't tolerate such
trollish
behavior in the name of "dissent".
Geoffrey Bell truetheatertype at
gmail.com:
Wait wait wait...I haven't been watching this list
like a hawk, and maybe
we're talking about two different people, but I
don't
see any trolls, only a
dissenter. And dissent is not a crime, of course.
On 7/1/05, Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Can we please remove the anonymous troll from this
list?
--- wikien-l-request(a)Wikipedia.org wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power (David
Gerard)
2. Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low EQs
(Fred Bauder)
3. Live 8 and the In the news box (Dan Grey)
4. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Fred Bauder)
5. Re: SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power (Sean
Barrett)
6. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Jerome
Jamnicky)
7. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Timwi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 01:37:06 +1000
From: fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin
Power
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<20050702153706.GH7309(a)thingy.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a dream ... of a wikien-l that isn't the
[[Thomas Crapper]] Memorial
Sewer for en:. One that has something vaguely to do
with writing an
encyclopedia.
New members of the list now start moderated. This is
a major PITA for your
power-crazed fascist list admins (to be addressed
henceforth as Dear
Leader), but that's the problem with persistent
trolling.
- d.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:46:52 -0600
From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)ctelco.net>
Subject: Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low
EQs
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)Wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<79149CF7-ADE9-4123-802E-EAB4A51A1854(a)ctelco.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
delsp=yes; format=flowed
Begin forwarded message:
From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)ctelco.net>
Date: July 2, 2005 9:45:36 AM MDT
To: "Nathan J. Yoder" <njyoder(a)energon.org>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low
EQs
On Jul 2, 2005, at 8:32 AM, Nathan J. Yoder wrote:
>> "You are a hypocrite" is a personal attack. "You
seem to
apply a
>> lenient standard to yourself and a strict
standard to others" is a
>> description of behavior, particularly if
you
cite examples.
>>
>
> Those mean the exact same thing! You just gave
the definition of a
> hypocrite. You're making a meaningless
distinction here and I
> seriously doubt you follow your own logic.
Are
you saying you've
> never called someone a troll or accused them
of
using sock puppets?
> Can you honestly say that you've been
using a
very long-winded,
> politically correct version of a troll
accusation?
>
And I do give examples, but you seem to keep
ignoring that repeatedly
> because it suits you to ignore it.
>
> You REALLY do not have the authority to make an
arbitrary distinction
like that
as it's outlined in *zero* policies.
What it says, at
[[Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Don.27t_do_it]]
(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Don.
27t_do_it) is "Comment on content, not on
the
contributor." Let's
suppose you are trying to add content and someone
is reverting it
on the basis that it is "personal
research" "POV"
"unsourced" or
whatever. You look at their edits and find they
are doing the same
thing or a number of other things equally bad and
are vigorously
defending their actions behind a smokescreen of
righteousness. This
is all publicly visible on Wikipedia and can be
demonstrated by
diffs. Going to a person's talk page or the
talk
page of an article
and discussing this double standard is not a
personal attack. A
bald statement that someone is a
"hypocrite" is.
I have sinned and doubtless will sin again;
however, I think I'm
doing better; partly because looking at all the
ways people get it
wrong and serving as a spokesman for Wikipedia
policies does get me
to thinking about my own behavior. When you find
yourself about to
do something you have banned someone for you can
sometimes pay
enough attention that you don't do it.
As to authority, doubtless Wikipedia policies can
be expressed more
clearly, doubtless decisions of the Arbitration
Committee could be
both plainer and more comprehensive, but Jimbo
and
through him the
Arbitration Committee do have authority to make
reasonable
decisions. Please keep in mind that you are only
being limited in
the range of voluntary work you chose to do on a
particular website.
This politically correct business is worth a
comment. If I succeed
in following Wikipedia policy or correctly
restating it I am in
some sense "correct" in that I have
followed the
"party line." That
is what I am supposed to do. I am not in a state
of sin because I
describe in detail behavior which could be
summarized as an
invidious characterization.
Fred
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:48:58 +0100
From: Dan Grey <dangrey(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Live 8 and the In the news box
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)wikipedia.org>
Message-ID:
<cfe1dfe1050702084871d548ce(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It would be nice if any admins reading this could
update the In the news box:
=== message truncated ===
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