[WikiEN-l] Anet Dartmouth, Again

Two responses to my earlier email have left me puzzled. While I admit it not the best thing I have ever written, I can't help but feel that I have somehow been misunderstood. You have your opinion, & I have mine. There is a great deal in the history of Western Civilization that is offensive & shameful -- but I believe that there are some things worthy of praise. If you cannot accept that there is at least one or two redeeming things to Western Civilization, then I don't know what I could say that you'd care to hear. And because it seems to be a point of anger here, let me explain _precisely_ what I mean by the term "Western Civilization": it is the common heritage of Europe, the Americas, Australia & New Zealand. One tradition that can be found amongst all of these people is the struggle towards tolerance, pluralism, & unfetered speech; I am unaware of any serious argument that this tradition of thought was introduced from Africa, India, or China. And from my long reading of history, I know that Western Civilization hardly has a monopoly on violence, oppression, ignorance & hatred. And Christiaan Briggs <christiaan(a)yurkycross.co.uk> wrote: My above passage is an example of a rhetorical technique known as irony. Unfortunately tone of voice does not always successfully transmit across the Internet for some reason, & obviously it failed in this case. I apologize for that failure here. I assume that you, too, misunderstood what I meant by "Western Civilization". If not, then I am puzzled why you reject an ideal that the land you appear to be writing from -- the United Kingdom -- has struggled to promote. While the struggle may not have always been praiseworthy, orderly, or even successful, many people in that land have worked to perpetuate the ideal I talked about. If you inadvertently thought that by "Western Civilization", I merely meant the United States of America, I think I may understand part of your reaction, but I still am left with one question. If there is nothing good that comes from the United States, then why do you bother to contribute to Wikipedia, which is a creation of the US? Sorry, but my reading time is currently spent on teaching myself the immense amount of knowledge that was not covered -- if even alluded to -- in my school years. While I should appreciate your concern for my educational backgruond, I find myself somewhat upset that you made sweeping assumptions about what I learned in school. From what I've since come to know, my education differed in many respects from other people that I have known. I won't bore you with all of the details, but I consider myself substantially self-taught despite my college degree, & still unfinished. And in reference to your comment about "the American Empire", not everyone in the US agrees with the views of the current President: a majority of voters cast ballots for his opponent in the last election, & I would be surprised if he received as many votes in this coming election. The US has been far more conflicted -- if not schizophrenic -- about the its imperial role than other nations. Wow. All of this verbage just because I tried to express (& again, I admit I did so badly) the hope that despite all of the crimes, objectionable behavior & just plain shit that has been done, it would nice if there was one positive ideal we in the west could pass on to not only the rest of the world, but also those who come after us. And the means this could be passed on is thru how we run Wikipedia. I guess I've learned that this ideal of pluralism, tolerance, & mutual respect isn't even that strongly held within the Wikipedia community. Geoff