Hey folks :)
We've been looking into performance issues of the special page Special:UnconnectedPages (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UnconnectedPages for example). There are a few improvements we can make to make it work better. However to evaluate if we can make those changes or not I need to know what you are currently using this page for exactly. So if you're using it it'd be great if you could tell me how you're using it currently to achieve what exactly.
Cheers Lydia
Hello, On trwiki, we are using this page to add links to pages that have old-style (conventional) interlanguage links in them, and possibly create new items (if not already present) on Wikidata. I love the fact that this special pages is "live" contrary to most of the special pages that are query based (cacched). Regards.
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 6:37 PM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
Hey folks :)
We've been looking into performance issues of the special page Special:UnconnectedPages (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UnconnectedPages for example). There are a few improvements we can make to make it work better. However to evaluate if we can make those changes or not I need to know what you are currently using this page for exactly. So if you're using it it'd be great if you could tell me how you're using it currently to achieve what exactly.
Cheers Lydia
Hi Lydia,
The Dutch community (on the Dutch Wikipedia) had a voting in which was decided to get rid of all the interwikis on articles, categories, templates, project pages and help pages. The moving or removal of all interwikis has been completed a few days ago, with what we have tried to fix all the interwiki conflicts we found. We also have an active abuse filter that prevents users to add local interwikis to these pages. Instead we actively communicate in person to every user that creates a new article which has not been added to Wikidata. We aim for that every article is added to Wikidata with a label in Dutch and at least the property *instance of*. And for many subjects multiple statements.
With actively communicating to users that they should add their new article to Wikidata, the most heard reaction is that they did not know that it is good to have it added to Wikidata. The second most heard issue we hear is that they find it difficult to add articles to Wikidata (including adding statements).
For those users who were in the past used to add interwikis are now actively adding their articles to existing Wikidata items. This special page we use to found out which articles have been forgotten to add to (existing) items on Wikidata. I have a templated message that notes those users if they forgot to add their article to an existing item and reminds them that such is needed. For users who are writing articles about typical Dutch subjects which are not expected to have an article in another language Wikipedia, it is new and I have a templated message that informs them why it is needed to create an item on Wikidata, tells them how to, and asks them to add some statements. We use the special page UnconnectedPages to see which articles have not been added yet to Wikidata.
Another group of pages we try to find with this special page are the ones that have been removed from an item without being added to an item.
The special pages makes it possible for me to just select with my mouse the list and then compare it in Autowikibrowser (still a pity we can't use AWB for items on Wikidata) to have see which of the unconnected pages is in which category, or which template, so we can groupewise add them to Wikidata.
So to conclude, this special page is essential for our work to get all the Wikipedia articles to Wikidata. The adding, by the way, we like to to do by hand so that we can at least add some basic statements depending on the subject. Sometimes it is possible to use a tool to create items and add statements to a group of articles, but most of them are done by hand. (If it is done by bot/tool we get like 1000 items with only p17=q55, and that is as bad as nothing.) To do it by hand we make sure the most basic properties are added.
The biggest issue we face with using is that the page is not real time updated, and that pages that already are added to Wikidata are still in the list. We then have to do a nulledit on the article to get them removed from the list. Another delay are the articles that were removed from an item do not show up directly. (Was it removed correctly from that item or was it an error or vandalism? It requires a lot of searching to find that out, if it is found.)
Another subject we have, but we can work around it by just ignoring them, are those articles that are newly created and nominated for deletion as non encyclopaedic or too worse written to be kept. They are nominated for deletion. The procedure for this kind of articles is that they have a template on them which says they are nominated, and after 2 weeks an admin looks at them and judges if they should be kept, deleted or the nomination period is extended to give extra time to the writers/users to fix the issues. During this period of two weeks the article is on the special page of unconnected pages, of which a part is expected to be deleted. During these two weeks the articles nominated for deletion are making the special page a bit clumsy. (Maybe it is an idea to have magic word added to the deletion templates so that the articles that are nominated for deletion and not connected on Wikidata, show up at the bottom of the articles. I think those articles nominated for deletion should be on the special page, because I can imagine users would accidental add such magic word to the article and a magic word that would prevent being shown on the list is risky for abuse/mistakes. However, as most users start at the top of the special page, the pages nominated for deletion clutter on top of the special page as they are ignored.)
In the current special page besides articles (ns:0) also other namespaces are shown: Wikipedia, Templates, help pages, categories, portal pages, modules. The problem with many pages in those sections are subpages. Examples: archive pages of discussion pages, /doc pages of templates, archive pages of our helpdesk, and subpages of portals are not needed to be added to Wikidata. With categories have another issue: categories of an individual user, those should like user pages not be added to Wikidata.
I would recommend to have users see by default only articles (ns:0), but with a menu on top of this special page in what users can select the namespace they want to see, or the option all namespaces. (Like the recent changes have such option.)
I hope this gives some insight in how we use this special page. I am interested in what kind of changes you have in mind, and I hope we can still use the special page as we now do. Certainly as we do not have an real time alternative for it.
If there are any questions, just let me know.
Greetings, Romaine
2015-04-29 17:36 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
Hey folks :)
We've been looking into performance issues of the special page Special:UnconnectedPages (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UnconnectedPages for example). There are a few improvements we can make to make it work better. However to evaluate if we can make those changes or not I need to know what you are currently using this page for exactly. So if you're using it it'd be great if you could tell me how you're using it currently to achieve what exactly.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Unconnected pages should be rewritten to use QueryPage class so 1- It can use better caching 2- It can send results to API (which currently It can't and that's why we don't have Special:Unconnected support in Pywikibot)
I started to do this a while ago but I got busy so I deferred this CS https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/167795 of mine until I got the time to do it but fortunately I will work on it in May.
What do you think? Best
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:37 AM Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Lydia,
The Dutch community (on the Dutch Wikipedia) had a voting in which was decided to get rid of all the interwikis on articles, categories, templates, project pages and help pages. The moving or removal of all interwikis has been completed a few days ago, with what we have tried to fix all the interwiki conflicts we found. We also have an active abuse filter that prevents users to add local interwikis to these pages. Instead we actively communicate in person to every user that creates a new article which has not been added to Wikidata. We aim for that every article is added to Wikidata with a label in Dutch and at least the property *instance of*. And for many subjects multiple statements.
With actively communicating to users that they should add their new article to Wikidata, the most heard reaction is that they did not know that it is good to have it added to Wikidata. The second most heard issue we hear is that they find it difficult to add articles to Wikidata (including adding statements).
For those users who were in the past used to add interwikis are now actively adding their articles to existing Wikidata items. This special page we use to found out which articles have been forgotten to add to (existing) items on Wikidata. I have a templated message that notes those users if they forgot to add their article to an existing item and reminds them that such is needed. For users who are writing articles about typical Dutch subjects which are not expected to have an article in another language Wikipedia, it is new and I have a templated message that informs them why it is needed to create an item on Wikidata, tells them how to, and asks them to add some statements. We use the special page UnconnectedPages to see which articles have not been added yet to Wikidata.
Another group of pages we try to find with this special page are the ones that have been removed from an item without being added to an item.
The special pages makes it possible for me to just select with my mouse the list and then compare it in Autowikibrowser (still a pity we can't use AWB for items on Wikidata) to have see which of the unconnected pages is in which category, or which template, so we can groupewise add them to Wikidata.
So to conclude, this special page is essential for our work to get all the Wikipedia articles to Wikidata. The adding, by the way, we like to to do by hand so that we can at least add some basic statements depending on the subject. Sometimes it is possible to use a tool to create items and add statements to a group of articles, but most of them are done by hand. (If it is done by bot/tool we get like 1000 items with only p17=q55, and that is as bad as nothing.) To do it by hand we make sure the most basic properties are added.
The biggest issue we face with using is that the page is not real time updated, and that pages that already are added to Wikidata are still in the list. We then have to do a nulledit on the article to get them removed from the list. Another delay are the articles that were removed from an item do not show up directly. (Was it removed correctly from that item or was it an error or vandalism? It requires a lot of searching to find that out, if it is found.)
Another subject we have, but we can work around it by just ignoring them, are those articles that are newly created and nominated for deletion as non encyclopaedic or too worse written to be kept. They are nominated for deletion. The procedure for this kind of articles is that they have a template on them which says they are nominated, and after 2 weeks an admin looks at them and judges if they should be kept, deleted or the nomination period is extended to give extra time to the writers/users to fix the issues. During this period of two weeks the article is on the special page of unconnected pages, of which a part is expected to be deleted. During these two weeks the articles nominated for deletion are making the special page a bit clumsy. (Maybe it is an idea to have magic word added to the deletion templates so that the articles that are nominated for deletion and not connected on Wikidata, show up at the bottom of the articles. I think those articles nominated for deletion should be on the special page, because I can imagine users would accidental add such magic word to the article and a magic word that would prevent being shown on the list is risky for abuse/mistakes. However, as most users start at the top of the special page, the pages nominated for deletion clutter on top of the special page as they are ignored.)
In the current special page besides articles (ns:0) also other namespaces are shown: Wikipedia, Templates, help pages, categories, portal pages, modules. The problem with many pages in those sections are subpages. Examples: archive pages of discussion pages, /doc pages of templates, archive pages of our helpdesk, and subpages of portals are not needed to be added to Wikidata. With categories have another issue: categories of an individual user, those should like user pages not be added to Wikidata.
I would recommend to have users see by default only articles (ns:0), but with a menu on top of this special page in what users can select the namespace they want to see, or the option all namespaces. (Like the recent changes have such option.)
I hope this gives some insight in how we use this special page. I am interested in what kind of changes you have in mind, and I hope we can still use the special page as we now do. Certainly as we do not have an real time alternative for it.
If there are any questions, just let me know.
Greetings, Romaine
2015-04-29 17:36 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
Hey folks :)
We've been looking into performance issues of the special page Special:UnconnectedPages (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UnconnectedPages for example). There are a few improvements we can make to make it work better. However to evaluate if we can make those changes or not I need to know what you are currently using this page for exactly. So if you're using it it'd be great if you could tell me how you're using it currently to achieve what exactly.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hoi Romaine, Great news :)
I would personally love it when the Dutch Wikipedians look after their dead. It does not get my eye and I think it is important to know at least about the recently dearly departed. Thanks, GerardM
On 30 April 2015 at 01:07, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Lydia,
The Dutch community (on the Dutch Wikipedia) had a voting in which was decided to get rid of all the interwikis on articles, categories, templates, project pages and help pages. The moving or removal of all interwikis has been completed a few days ago, with what we have tried to fix all the interwiki conflicts we found. We also have an active abuse filter that prevents users to add local interwikis to these pages. Instead we actively communicate in person to every user that creates a new article which has not been added to Wikidata. We aim for that every article is added to Wikidata with a label in Dutch and at least the property *instance of*. And for many subjects multiple statements.
With actively communicating to users that they should add their new article to Wikidata, the most heard reaction is that they did not know that it is good to have it added to Wikidata. The second most heard issue we hear is that they find it difficult to add articles to Wikidata (including adding statements).
For those users who were in the past used to add interwikis are now actively adding their articles to existing Wikidata items. This special page we use to found out which articles have been forgotten to add to (existing) items on Wikidata. I have a templated message that notes those users if they forgot to add their article to an existing item and reminds them that such is needed. For users who are writing articles about typical Dutch subjects which are not expected to have an article in another language Wikipedia, it is new and I have a templated message that informs them why it is needed to create an item on Wikidata, tells them how to, and asks them to add some statements. We use the special page UnconnectedPages to see which articles have not been added yet to Wikidata.
Another group of pages we try to find with this special page are the ones that have been removed from an item without being added to an item.
The special pages makes it possible for me to just select with my mouse the list and then compare it in Autowikibrowser (still a pity we can't use AWB for items on Wikidata) to have see which of the unconnected pages is in which category, or which template, so we can groupewise add them to Wikidata.
So to conclude, this special page is essential for our work to get all the Wikipedia articles to Wikidata. The adding, by the way, we like to to do by hand so that we can at least add some basic statements depending on the subject. Sometimes it is possible to use a tool to create items and add statements to a group of articles, but most of them are done by hand. (If it is done by bot/tool we get like 1000 items with only p17=q55, and that is as bad as nothing.) To do it by hand we make sure the most basic properties are added.
The biggest issue we face with using is that the page is not real time updated, and that pages that already are added to Wikidata are still in the list. We then have to do a nulledit on the article to get them removed from the list. Another delay are the articles that were removed from an item do not show up directly. (Was it removed correctly from that item or was it an error or vandalism? It requires a lot of searching to find that out, if it is found.)
Another subject we have, but we can work around it by just ignoring them, are those articles that are newly created and nominated for deletion as non encyclopaedic or too worse written to be kept. They are nominated for deletion. The procedure for this kind of articles is that they have a template on them which says they are nominated, and after 2 weeks an admin looks at them and judges if they should be kept, deleted or the nomination period is extended to give extra time to the writers/users to fix the issues. During this period of two weeks the article is on the special page of unconnected pages, of which a part is expected to be deleted. During these two weeks the articles nominated for deletion are making the special page a bit clumsy. (Maybe it is an idea to have magic word added to the deletion templates so that the articles that are nominated for deletion and not connected on Wikidata, show up at the bottom of the articles. I think those articles nominated for deletion should be on the special page, because I can imagine users would accidental add such magic word to the article and a magic word that would prevent being shown on the list is risky for abuse/mistakes. However, as most users start at the top of the special page, the pages nominated for deletion clutter on top of the special page as they are ignored.)
In the current special page besides articles (ns:0) also other namespaces are shown: Wikipedia, Templates, help pages, categories, portal pages, modules. The problem with many pages in those sections are subpages. Examples: archive pages of discussion pages, /doc pages of templates, archive pages of our helpdesk, and subpages of portals are not needed to be added to Wikidata. With categories have another issue: categories of an individual user, those should like user pages not be added to Wikidata.
I would recommend to have users see by default only articles (ns:0), but with a menu on top of this special page in what users can select the namespace they want to see, or the option all namespaces. (Like the recent changes have such option.)
I hope this gives some insight in how we use this special page. I am interested in what kind of changes you have in mind, and I hope we can still use the special page as we now do. Certainly as we do not have an real time alternative for it.
If there are any questions, just let me know.
Greetings, Romaine
2015-04-29 17:36 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
Hey folks :)
We've been looking into performance issues of the special page Special:UnconnectedPages (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UnconnectedPages for example). There are a few improvements we can make to make it work better. However to evaluate if we can make those changes or not I need to know what you are currently using this page for exactly. So if you're using it it'd be great if you could tell me how you're using it currently to achieve what exactly.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Feature request: 1) Better selecting of namespaces 2) API output for pagesgenerator in pywikibot 3) do not display subpages on template, project and portal namespace (or option to hide (*/*) pages)
JAnD
2015-04-30 8:07 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi Romaine, Great news :)
I would personally love it when the Dutch Wikipedians look after their dead. It does not get my eye and I think it is important to know at least about the recently dearly departed. Thanks, GerardM
On 30 April 2015 at 01:07, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Lydia,
The Dutch community (on the Dutch Wikipedia) had a voting in which was decided to get rid of all the interwikis on articles, categories, templates, project pages and help pages. The moving or removal of all interwikis has been completed a few days ago, with what we have tried to fix all the interwiki conflicts we found. We also have an active abuse filter that prevents users to add local interwikis to these pages. Instead we actively communicate in person to every user that creates a new article which has not been added to Wikidata. We aim for that every article is added to Wikidata with a label in Dutch and at least the property *instance of*. And for many subjects multiple statements.
With actively communicating to users that they should add their new article to Wikidata, the most heard reaction is that they did not know that it is good to have it added to Wikidata. The second most heard issue we hear is that they find it difficult to add articles to Wikidata (including adding statements).
For those users who were in the past used to add interwikis are now actively adding their articles to existing Wikidata items. This special page we use to found out which articles have been forgotten to add to (existing) items on Wikidata. I have a templated message that notes those users if they forgot to add their article to an existing item and reminds them that such is needed. For users who are writing articles about typical Dutch subjects which are not expected to have an article in another language Wikipedia, it is new and I have a templated message that informs them why it is needed to create an item on Wikidata, tells them how to, and asks them to add some statements. We use the special page UnconnectedPages to see which articles have not been added yet to Wikidata.
Another group of pages we try to find with this special page are the ones that have been removed from an item without being added to an item.
The special pages makes it possible for me to just select with my mouse the list and then compare it in Autowikibrowser (still a pity we can't use AWB for items on Wikidata) to have see which of the unconnected pages is in which category, or which template, so we can groupewise add them to Wikidata.
So to conclude, this special page is essential for our work to get all the Wikipedia articles to Wikidata. The adding, by the way, we like to to do by hand so that we can at least add some basic statements depending on the subject. Sometimes it is possible to use a tool to create items and add statements to a group of articles, but most of them are done by hand. (If it is done by bot/tool we get like 1000 items with only p17=q55, and that is as bad as nothing.) To do it by hand we make sure the most basic properties are added.
The biggest issue we face with using is that the page is not real time updated, and that pages that already are added to Wikidata are still in the list. We then have to do a nulledit on the article to get them removed from the list. Another delay are the articles that were removed from an item do not show up directly. (Was it removed correctly from that item or was it an error or vandalism? It requires a lot of searching to find that out, if it is found.)
Another subject we have, but we can work around it by just ignoring them, are those articles that are newly created and nominated for deletion as non encyclopaedic or too worse written to be kept. They are nominated for deletion. The procedure for this kind of articles is that they have a template on them which says they are nominated, and after 2 weeks an admin looks at them and judges if they should be kept, deleted or the nomination period is extended to give extra time to the writers/users to fix the issues. During this period of two weeks the article is on the special page of unconnected pages, of which a part is expected to be deleted. During these two weeks the articles nominated for deletion are making the special page a bit clumsy. (Maybe it is an idea to have magic word added to the deletion templates so that the articles that are nominated for deletion and not connected on Wikidata, show up at the bottom of the articles. I think those articles nominated for deletion should be on the special page, because I can imagine users would accidental add such magic word to the article and a magic word that would prevent being shown on the list is risky for abuse/mistakes. However, as most users start at the top of the special page, the pages nominated for deletion clutter on top of the special page as they are ignored.)
In the current special page besides articles (ns:0) also other namespaces are shown: Wikipedia, Templates, help pages, categories, portal pages, modules. The problem with many pages in those sections are subpages. Examples: archive pages of discussion pages, /doc pages of templates, archive pages of our helpdesk, and subpages of portals are not needed to be added to Wikidata. With categories have another issue: categories of an individual user, those should like user pages not be added to Wikidata.
I would recommend to have users see by default only articles (ns:0), but with a menu on top of this special page in what users can select the namespace they want to see, or the option all namespaces. (Like the recent changes have such option.)
I hope this gives some insight in how we use this special page. I am interested in what kind of changes you have in mind, and I hope we can still use the special page as we now do. Certainly as we do not have an real time alternative for it.
If there are any questions, just let me know.
Greetings, Romaine
2015-04-29 17:36 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de :
Hey folks :)
We've been looking into performance issues of the special page Special:UnconnectedPages (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UnconnectedPages for example). There are a few improvements we can make to make it work better. However to evaluate if we can make those changes or not I need to know what you are currently using this page for exactly. So if you're using it it'd be great if you could tell me how you're using it currently to achieve what exactly.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Thanks so much for the feedback. That was useful. We'll rework the page to make it not time-out as it currently does on larger wikis. The way we'll go for to achieve this is by sorting the pages by page-id rather than page-title. That should also make it relatively easy to find the newest or oldest pages depending on which you're working on. We'll also provide a filter for the namespace but that might come a bit later.
Cheers Lydia
That would effectively make the output quasirandom, make paging confusing, and look up of specific pages and following pages impossible. In all I think this makes the page useless for anybody except those projects that has managed to clean up the remaining unconnected pages, and those that has less than 5000 (I think that is the limit) pages in the list.
I would rather suggest that an optional category should be added, and that it should be mandatory if the namespace page count indicates that the number of pages goes above some limit.
I think the start was implemented as a prefix search originally, but I wonder if that is still the case. It could be wise to check it out. It could be an idea to use a default prefix search if none is added.
If neither a prefix pattern or a prefix search are used, then a page-id sorted first N hits can be returned. It should also be possible to switch between oldest first and newest first.
The seemingly caching behavior is probably the update which arrives late, but it could be an indication of other issues. The same bug was fixed several years ago, and disappeared, so it can be a new bug.
It is interesting that there are now real needs for caching and an API, the page itself wasn't much appreciated and deemed unnecessary when it was created. This it has in common with a lot of the maintenance pages, the editors use them even if they are really crappy. Other special pages are using old, often several days old, reports as their source. When it comes to maintenance reports they should be up to date and actionable, not outdated and questionable.
</rant>
John
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
Thanks so much for the feedback. That was useful. We'll rework the page to make it not time-out as it currently does on larger wikis. The way we'll go for to achieve this is by sorting the pages by page-id rather than page-title. That should also make it relatively easy to find the newest or oldest pages depending on which you're working on. We'll also provide a filter for the namespace but that might come a bit later.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
...and one additional thing; use of this page is client side, not server side. That imply that the communities at the client side should be asked, not the community at the server side. Which means that this list is the wrong forum.
John
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 2:58 PM, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
That would effectively make the output quasirandom, make paging confusing, and look up of specific pages and following pages impossible. In all I think this makes the page useless for anybody except those projects that has managed to clean up the remaining unconnected pages, and those that has less than 5000 (I think that is the limit) pages in the list.
I would rather suggest that an optional category should be added, and that it should be mandatory if the namespace page count indicates that the number of pages goes above some limit.
I think the start was implemented as a prefix search originally, but I wonder if that is still the case. It could be wise to check it out. It could be an idea to use a default prefix search if none is added.
If neither a prefix pattern or a prefix search are used, then a page-id sorted first N hits can be returned. It should also be possible to switch between oldest first and newest first.
The seemingly caching behavior is probably the update which arrives late, but it could be an indication of other issues. The same bug was fixed several years ago, and disappeared, so it can be a new bug.
It is interesting that there are now real needs for caching and an API, the page itself wasn't much appreciated and deemed unnecessary when it was created. This it has in common with a lot of the maintenance pages, the editors use them even if they are really crappy. Other special pages are using old, often several days old, reports as their source. When it comes to maintenance reports they should be up to date and actionable, not outdated and questionable.
</rant>
John
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
Thanks so much for the feedback. That was useful. We'll rework the page to make it not time-out as it currently does on larger wikis. The way we'll go for to achieve this is by sorting the pages by page-id rather than page-title. That should also make it relatively easy to find the newest or oldest pages depending on which you're working on. We'll also provide a filter for the namespace but that might come a bit later.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:01 PM, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
...and one additional thing; use of this page is client side, not server side. That imply that the communities at the client side should be asked, not the community at the server side. Which means that this list is the wrong forum.
John, I got the answers I needed from the people who actually use the page and we're making it more useful for them based on this feedback within the technical constraints we have right now.
Cheers Lydia
Thanks! What you are saying is that you don't want any feedback.
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:01 PM, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
...and one additional thing; use of this page is client side, not server side. That imply that the communities at the client side should be asked, not the community at the server side. Which means that this list is the wrong forum.
John, I got the answers I needed from the people who actually use the page and we're making it more useful for them based on this feedback within the technical constraints we have right now.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:55 PM, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks! What you are saying is that you don't want any feedback.
I am sure we do (as always). I think we already got (imho) enough feedback and need to proceed best as possible (within our constraints) to satisfy what folks want.
What I hear is that people like that the results in the special page are "live" (vs. cached) and they use the iwlinks filter. I think we can adjust how the query works to make if fast enough to not require caching (except maybe "squid" caching for a minute).
Also, some people are interested in having results sorted by how old the page is (so people can find recently create pages, or other way around). For the most part, page_id provides this while also being better choice performance-wise. It is also consistent with how Special:PagesWithProps works. (Special:PagesWithProps is also pretty fast, thus it doesn't need to be a cached special page)
I think we can also extend QueryPage so that we can make this information available in the api. (sorting by page title is not very suitable for QueryPage) and if for some reason we still need caching now or in the future, then it would be more easily possible if we extend QueryPage.
Cheers, Katie
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:01 PM, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com
wrote:
...and one additional thing; use of this page is client side, not server side. That imply that the communities at the client side should be asked, not the community at the server side. Which means that this list is the wrong forum.
John, I got the answers I needed from the people who actually use the page and we're making it more useful for them based on this feedback within the technical constraints we have right now.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l