Hi,
Will the monolngual text datatype support old languages? There are settlements that had an "official name" in a now dead language. Besides of "no language", will there be an option to mark such names as "custom" and use the qualifier "language (p407)" instead?
Thanks, Micru
Hoi. When a language is dead, it does not mean that it cannot be made available in Wikidata. The language committee has explicitly opened the door for any and all recognised language.. (ie ISO 639-3).
There is no need for tricks, Thanks, GerardM
On 29 June 2014 11:54, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Will the monolngual text datatype support old languages? There are settlements that had an "official name" in a now dead language. Besides of "no language", will there be an option to mark such names as "custom" and use the qualifier "language (p407)" instead?
Thanks, Micru
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Am 29.06.2014 14:10, schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi. When a language is dead, it does not mean that it cannot be made available in Wikidata. The language committee has explicitly opened the door for any and all recognised language.. (ie ISO 639-3).
This is correct. However, there will be no "custom" option: the set of languages supported by wikidata is a well-defined list, controlled by the configuration of the site. It's basically the list of languages MediaWiki supports for the user interface, plus a few special ones. Adding a language can be done based on community consensus.
-- daniel
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de
wrote:
This is correct. However, there will be no "custom" option: the set of languages supported by wikidata is a well-defined list, controlled by the configuration of the site. It's basically the list of languages MediaWiki supports for the user interface, plus a few special ones. Adding a language can be done based on community consensus.
What about constructed or invented languages? A list will work for most cases but there always will be edge cases and adding them to the list will be too much.
*"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."*
Cheers, Micru
Hey :)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
What about constructed or invented languages? A list will work for most cases but there always will be edge cases and adding them to the list will be too much.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
Which languages are you worried about specifically? What kind of data would you want to record for them? (I'm trying to get a feeling for how large the problem is and which parts of it are already solved.)
Cheers Lydia
For instance in "Template:Infobox fictional country" there is a field for fictional mottos, like the one for Syldavia, the fictional country that appears in The Adventures of Tintin:
Syldavia (Q1751922) <motto> "Eih bennek, eih blavek." <language> Syldavian (Q2708019)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Lydia Pintscher < lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hey :)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
What about constructed or invented languages? A list will work for most cases but there always will be edge cases and adding them to the list
will
be too much.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
Which languages are you worried about specifically? What kind of data would you want to record for them? (I'm trying to get a feeling for how large the problem is and which parts of it are already solved.)
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hoi, The ISO-639-3 has codes for "whatever". We can use a code for "whatever" and qualify it to a tin foiled hat or tin tin or whatever. Thanks, GerardM
On 29 June 2014 21:19, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
For instance in "Template:Infobox fictional country" there is a field for fictional mottos, like the one for Syldavia, the fictional country that appears in The Adventures of Tintin:
Syldavia (Q1751922) <motto> "Eih bennek, eih blavek." <language> Syldavian (Q2708019)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Lydia Pintscher < lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hey :)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
What about constructed or invented languages? A list will work for most cases but there always will be edge cases and adding them to the list
will
be too much.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
Which languages are you worried about specifically? What kind of data would you want to record for them? (I'm trying to get a feeling for how large the problem is and which parts of it are already solved.)
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
If we are able to use any ISO-639-3 that should do. It worried me hearing "there will be no 'custom' language", when there are language codes like "mis", "mul", "und", "zxx" that mean more or less "custom".
Thanks, Micru
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, The ISO-639-3 has codes for "whatever". We can use a code for "whatever" and qualify it to a tin foiled hat or tin tin or whatever. Thanks, GerardM
On 29 June 2014 21:19, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
For instance in "Template:Infobox fictional country" there is a field for fictional mottos, like the one for Syldavia, the fictional country that appears in The Adventures of Tintin:
Syldavia (Q1751922) <motto> "Eih bennek, eih blavek." <language> Syldavian (Q2708019)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Lydia Pintscher < lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hey :)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
What about constructed or invented languages? A list will work for most cases but there always will be edge cases and adding them to the list
will
be too much.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
Which languages are you worried about specifically? What kind of data would you want to record for them? (I'm trying to get a feeling for how large the problem is and which parts of it are already solved.)
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hoi, The policy has it that a request is to be made. When it proves that labels are not representive of tje language, they will be removed.
Yes, special codes can be used but for it to work qualifiers need to be used. Thanks, GerardM Op 29 jun. 2014 23:06 schreef "David Cuenca" dacuetu@gmail.com:
If we are able to use any ISO-639-3 that should do. It worried me hearing "there will be no 'custom' language", when there are language codes like "mis", "mul", "und", "zxx" that mean more or less "custom".
Thanks, Micru
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi, The ISO-639-3 has codes for "whatever". We can use a code for "whatever" and qualify it to a tin foiled hat or tin tin or whatever. Thanks, GerardM
On 29 June 2014 21:19, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
For instance in "Template:Infobox fictional country" there is a field for fictional mottos, like the one for Syldavia, the fictional country that appears in The Adventures of Tintin:
Syldavia (Q1751922) <motto> "Eih bennek, eih blavek." <language> Syldavian (Q2708019)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Lydia Pintscher < lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hey :)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Cuenca dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
What about constructed or invented languages? A list will work for
most
cases but there always will be edge cases and adding them to the list
will
be too much.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
Which languages are you worried about specifically? What kind of data would you want to record for them? (I'm trying to get a feeling for how large the problem is and which parts of it are already solved.)
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hoi, You are wrong, Thanks, GerardM
On 29 June 2014 15:01, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de wrote:
Am 29.06.2014 14:10, schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi. When a language is dead, it does not mean that it cannot be made
available in
Wikidata. The language committee has explicitly opened the door for any
and all
recognised language.. (ie ISO 639-3).
This is correct. However, there will be no "custom" option: the set of languages supported by wikidata is a well-defined list, controlled by the configuration of the site. It's basically the list of languages MediaWiki supports for the user interface, plus a few special ones. Adding a language can be done based on community consensus.
-- daniel
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, You are wrong,
Please explain about what and why.
Cheers Lydia
Hoi, Making languages available for projects is something that is done according to the Wikimedia language policy. In it there is no say at all for the community. The reason being that this proved to be very political and consequently very disruptive. Thanks, GerardM
2014-06-29 15:44 GMT+02:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, You are wrong,
Please explain about what and why.
Cheers Lydia
-- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Am 29.06.2014 16:06, schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, Making languages available for projects is something that is done according to the Wikimedia language policy. In it there is no say at all for the community. The reason being that this proved to be very political and consequently very disruptive.
I was under the impression that this applies to making a *project* available in a new language. Which means splitting/duplicating the content along the language boundary - which of course is very political.
I was not aware that the same applies to *interface* languages.
Wikidata of course is special in that you can mix and match content in any interface language. Do you think the language policy applies, or should apply, to which languages can be used e.g. in image descriptions on commons, or for labels on wikidata? Until now, I was under the impression that this was up to the community alone.
-- daniel
Hoi, The interface is localised from English at translatewiki.net. Localisation has always been done as part of the requirements for a new project. The ability to localise happens after the language committee indicates that a language is "eligible". There are all kinds of complications with the use of only ISO-639-3 codes. This has proven to be problematic in the past. As a consequence the policy has it that certainly for a living language eligibility is almost guaranteed. The policy has it that the committee is allowed to think and decide.
So no, it is not up the community and for as long as the language committee exists it has not been.
When people use whatever string of characters to identify a file on Commons.. they can.. who cares it is just an identifier. When people add a label in Wikidata it has to be in the language specified. Thanks, GerardM
On 30 June 2014 09:26, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de wrote:
Am 29.06.2014 16:06, schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, Making languages available for projects is something that is done
according to
the Wikimedia language policy. In it there is no say at all for the
community.
The reason being that this proved to be very political and consequently
very
disruptive.
I was under the impression that this applies to making a *project* available in a new language. Which means splitting/duplicating the content along the language boundary - which of course is very political.
I was not aware that the same applies to *interface* languages.
Wikidata of course is special in that you can mix and match content in any interface language. Do you think the language policy applies, or should apply, to which languages can be used e.g. in image descriptions on commons, or for labels on wikidata? Until now, I was under the impression that this was up to the community alone.
-- daniel
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
"Daniel Kinzler" daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de writes
[...] the set of languages supported by wikidata is a well-defined list, controlled by the configuration of the site. It's basically the list of languages MediaWiki supports for the user interface, plus a few special ones. Adding a language can be done based on community consensus.
Which reminds me that I have long-outstanding requests for additions. Imho it is just a waste that I cannot enter few more labels where I could.
A lookup reveals: My wish was archived but not acted upon. http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2013/11#missing_a...
Purodha
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:37 PM, P. Blissenbach publi@web.de wrote:
Which reminds me that I have long-outstanding requests for additions. Imho it is just a waste that I cannot enter few more labels where I could.
A lookup reveals: My wish was archived but not acted upon. http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2013/11#missing_a...
Please get them ok'd as available language codes via the language committee. Gerard can surely help you there.
Cheers Lydia