Mapping back to Schema.org needs "broader external class" - Wikidata

Dan Brickley

26 Sep 26 Sep

3:07 a.m.

New subject: Mapping back to Schema.org needs "broader external class"

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 16:35, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Team ! +Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> +Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de> Schema.org mapping is progressing on every new Weekly Summary "Newest properties" listing. That's great ! And thanks to Léa and team for providing the new properties listing ! What's not great, is many times, we cannot apply a "broader external class" to map to a Schema.org Type. This is because "broader concept" https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4900 is constrained to "qualifiers only and not for use on statements". We are able to use the existing "narrower external class" <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3950> , for example like here on this topic, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7406919 , but there is no "broader external class" property in Wikidata yet from what we see. It would be *awesome* if someone could advocate for that new property to help map Wikidata to external vocabularies that have broader concepts quite often, such as Schema.org.

Could you give 2-3 specific examples, to help motivate the request, for folk who're not tracking this work? Dan -Thad

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+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>

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Andra Waagmeester

8:57 a.m.

New subject: Mapping back to Schema.org needs "broader external class"

I would certainly support this proposal or can even propose it. Would it also be an idea to do the narrow equivalent, at the same time? Any objection to naming them broad and narrow match, to reflect the mapping relations in SKOS? On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 3:54 AM Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Sure, Dan aggregate demand <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1801078> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Demand place of devotion <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5873> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Place festival <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q132241> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Event Usually we can discover these relationships quite easily with "What links here" on the GUI and applicable SPARQL queries, but then would like to apply the Wikidata->Schema.org mappings when we discover those relationships can be made. I suck at PHP, so I couldn't build or contribute to a native application for Wikidata to host that application to auto discover some of these mappings, but would be happy to assist someone who could code in PHP to build such application...here's looking at you, Magnus ? :-) -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:07 PM Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 16:35, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Team ! +Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> +Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de> Schema.org mapping is progressing on every new Weekly Summary "Newest properties" listing. That's great ! And thanks to Léa and team for providing the new properties listing ! What's not great, is many times, we cannot apply a "broader external class" to map to a Schema.org Type. This is because "broader concept" https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4900 is constrained to "qualifiers only and not for use on statements". We are able to use the existing "narrower external class" <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3950> , for example like here on this topic, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7406919 , but there is no "broader external class" property in Wikidata yet from what we see. It would be *awesome* if someone could advocate for that new property to help map Wikidata to external vocabularies that have broader concepts quite often, such as Schema.org.

Could you give 2-3 specific examples, to help motivate the request, for folk who're not tracking this work? Dan -Thad > +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> > > _______________________________________________

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James Heald

10:53 a.m.

On 26/09/2018 08:46, James Heald wrote:

...

This model is not good. If you dump *all* such matches from whatever source into a single property, then you force people to use string-comparison filters if it is a particular source (eg schema.org) that they are interested in. That may not be such a problem if you're only interested in incoming matches (eg matches *from* schema.org), but if you're going to want outgoing matches (matches *to* schema.org), it's tiresome and horribly inefficient. Far better to have a dedicated external-id property for schema.org, which would avoid this; and if there are important concepts there that we don't have an item for on Wikidata, then create those items. -- James.

And just to add: A dedicated external-id property then also means you can use qualifier P4900 "broader concept" as intended, as a way to represent and query within wikidata the structure of the external hierarchy. -- James.

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On 26/09/2018 06:57, Andra Waagmeester wrote:

I would certainly support this proposal or can even propose it. Would it also be an idea to do the narrow equivalent, at the same time? Any objection to naming them broad and narrow match, to reflect the mapping relations in SKOS? On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 3:54 AM Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Sure, Dan aggregate demand <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1801078> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Demand place of devotion <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5873> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Place festival <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q132241> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Event Usually we can discover these relationships quite easily with "What links here" on the GUI and applicable SPARQL queries, but then would like to apply the Wikidata->Schema.org mappings when we discover those relationships can be made. I suck at PHP, so I couldn't build or contribute to a native application for Wikidata to host that application to auto discover some of these mappings, but would be happy to assist someone who could code in PHP to build such application...here's looking at you, Magnus ? :-) -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:07 PM Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 16:35, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Team ! > +Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> +Lydia Pintscher > <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de> > > Schema.org mapping is progressing on every new Weekly Summary "Newest > properties" listing. > That's great ! And thanks to Léa and team for providing the new > properties listing ! > > What's not great, is many times, we cannot apply a "broader external > class" to map to a Schema.org Type. This is because "broader concept" > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4900 is constrained to > "qualifiers only and not for use on statements". > > We are able to use the existing "narrower external class" > <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3950> , for example like here > on this topic, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7406919 , but there > is no > "broader external class" property in Wikidata yet from what we see. > > It would be *awesome* if someone could advocate for that new property > to help map Wikidata to external vocabularies that have broader > concepts > quite often, such as Schema.org. > Could you give 2-3 specific examples, to help motivate the request, for folk who're not tracking this work? Dan -Thad > +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> > > _______________________________________________

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James Heald

12:44 p.m.

On 26/09/2018 10:16, Andra Waagmeester wrote:

...

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 9:47 AM James Heald <jpm.heald(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Far better to have a dedicated external-id property for schema.org, which would avoid this; and if there are important concepts there that we don't have an item for on Wikidata, then create those items.

Creating a dedicated property for schema.org, would also imply the need for creating designated properties for other context providers such as OBO, SIO, etc. I see that having to filter on matching uri providers in a single property can be complicated, but would that be more complicated than having to consider all possible schema/context providers through distinct properties?

In SPARQL the latter is very easy. Just make a VALUES list of all the properties you are interested in, VALUES ?prop_wdt {wdt:P1111, wdt:P2222, wdt:P3333, wdt:P6666} then look for ?item ?prop_wdt ?ext_id Alternatively, if there is something characteristic about a whole set of properties that you want to use, then add that information to the wikidata item for the property. You will then be easily able to select all the with that characteristic, eg: ?prop wdt:1234 wd:Q5678901 ?prop wikibase:directClaim ?prop_wdt This gives you the fine control to retrieve just the URIs of the services you want, rather than only being able to retrieve everything all lumped together. Using distinct external-ID properties also makes it much easier to see what properties are currently in play, for project tracking pages like this one: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_BHL/Statistics:Titles#Ti… -- James. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

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Ettore RIZZA

11:18 a.m.

New subject: Mapping back to Schema.org needs "broader external class"

Hi, aggregate demand -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Demand

...

place of devotion -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Place festival -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Event

According to the "creator" of the property narrower external class (P3950) <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/external_subclass>, " the reverse (...) is less required because more general classes are more likely to be included in Wikidata anyway. " These examples seem to prove him right, since "demand <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q4402708>" exists in Wikidata and is already linked to "http://schema.org/Demand" via the equivalent class property. Same thing for https://schema.org/Event, already mapped with event <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1656682>, or for https://schema.org/Place , which could be associated with location <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17334923> (not sure). To be clear, I support the creation of "broader external class" because it can be used with some external vocabularies; I point this out just to make sure that all existing mapping possibilities are used. :) Cheers, Ettore Rizza On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 at 03:53, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Sure, Dan aggregate demand <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1801078> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Demand place of devotion <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5873> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Place festival <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q132241> -- broader external class --> https://schema.org/Event Usually we can discover these relationships quite easily with "What links here" on the GUI and applicable SPARQL queries, but then would like to apply the Wikidata->Schema.org mappings when we discover those relationships can be made. I suck at PHP, so I couldn't build or contribute to a native application for Wikidata to host that application to auto discover some of these mappings, but would be happy to assist someone who could code in PHP to build such application...here's looking at you, Magnus ? :-) -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:07 PM Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 16:35, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Team ! +Dan Brickley <danbri(a)google.com> +Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher(a)wikimedia.de> Schema.org mapping is progressing on every new Weekly Summary "Newest properties" listing. That's great ! And thanks to Léa and team for providing the new properties listing ! What's not great, is many times, we cannot apply a "broader external class" to map to a Schema.org Type. This is because "broader concept" https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P4900 is constrained to "qualifiers only and not for use on statements". We are able to use the existing "narrower external class" <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3950> , for example like here on this topic, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7406919 , but there is no "broader external class" property in Wikidata yet from what we see. It would be *awesome* if someone could advocate for that new property to help map Wikidata to external vocabularies that have broader concepts quite often, such as Schema.org.

Could you give 2-3 specific examples, to help motivate the request, for folk who're not tracking this work? Dan -Thad > +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> > > _______________________________________________

Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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