WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia (Was: Re: Possibility of data lock)

This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject changed! -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Biyanto Rebin

10 Jun 10 Jun

7:34 a.m.

...

On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote:

PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who want to

join

please let me know :)

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Gerard Meijssen

7:53 p.m.

...

On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote:

PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who want to

join

please let me know :)

_______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

-- Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (*Chair*) 2016-2018 Wikimedia Indonesia Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id ~~~~ Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Biyanto Rebin

13 Jun 13 Jun

9:04 a.m.

What do you mean with permission? Is it regarding with Wikimedia language code? I usually left the ISO 693-3 code if I couldn't find it. Best, 2016-06-11 0:53 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who want to join > please let me know :) This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject changed! -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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Gerard Meijssen

9:14 a.m.

...

Hoi, Hear hear !! For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and all languages to have many labels in their language. Thanks, GerardM On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: > On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> > wrote: > > > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who want > to join > > please let me know :) > > This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject changed! > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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Biyanto Rebin

3:06 p.m.

Thank you Gerard, I usually leave it empty for the language that I couldn't find. Another question, Wikidata have two different item for close term, language in Q315 and language (in linguistics) in Q34770. It's important thing because when I randomly check some of Wikidata using Q315 <https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Q315&limit=500> or Q34770 <https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Q34770&limit=500> . Any idea how to solve this problem? 2016-06-13 14:14 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

I use the code that is made by Statistics Indonesia <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2590>, it's in PDF format. Unfortunately, Indonesian government's language body, likely doesn't have their own code. Some of language in Indonesia still doesn't have any ISO 639-3. Best, 2016-06-10 0:36 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: > Hoi, > Hear hear !! > > For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be > enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and all > languages to have many labels in their language. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> > wrote: > >> On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> >> wrote: >> >> > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who want >> to join >> > please let me know :) >> >> This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject changed! >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > > -- Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (*Chair*) 2016-2018 Wikimedia Indonesia Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id ~~~~ Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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Gerard Meijssen

5:37 p.m.

Hoi I love it when items are highjacked by a science and leave us with something that is completely ambiguous. Thanks, GerardM On 13 June 2016 at 15:06, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote:

...

Hoi, When a language cannot be matched to an ISO-639-3 code, it is necessary to ask for permission from the Language Committee first. Thanks, GerardM On 10 June 2016 at 07:34, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: > I use the code that is made by Statistics Indonesia > <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2590>, it's in PDF format. > Unfortunately, Indonesian government's language body, likely doesn't have > their own code. Some of language in Indonesia still doesn't have any ISO > 639-3. > > Best, > > 2016-06-10 0:36 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: > >> Hoi, >> Hear hear !! >> >> For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be >> enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and all >> languages to have many labels in their language. >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> >> wrote: >> >>> On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin < >>> biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: >>> >>> > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who >>> want to join >>> > please let me know :) >>> >>> This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject changed! >>> >>> -- >>> Andy Mabbett >>> @pigsonthewing >>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata mailing list >>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >> > > > -- > > Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (*Chair*) 2016-2018 > Wikimedia Indonesia > Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 > Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id > ~~~~ > > Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: > http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > > _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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Andrew Gray

6:30 p.m.

Hi Biyanto, I think discussing this in English will be hard, as it seems English doesn't split out the different concepts... Going by the French & German, Q315 (Langage \ Sprache) is the abstract concept of language (the ability to convey concepts) and Q34770 (Langue \ Einzelsprachen) is "a language". So perhaps it would be more correct to say that, for example, English is an instance of Q34770. *However*, Q4536530 seems to also cover the abstract Langage concept, and Q315 is marked as a subclass of Q4536530. It feels like we have three items covering two concepts - but all three have articles in German so maybe there's still another concept? Argh. I think we need a (German-speaking?) linguist to sort this one out. Do we have one on the list? :-) Andrew. On 13 June 2016 at 14:06, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote:

...

Thank you Gerard, I usually leave it empty for the language that I couldn't find. Another question, Wikidata have two different item for close term, language in Q315 and language (in linguistics) in Q34770. It's important thing because when I randomly check some of Wikidata using Q315 or Q34770. Any idea how to solve this problem? 2016-06-13 14:14 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: > > Hoi, > The language committee agreed that recognised languages of the iso 639-3 > that indicate single languages may be used without asking on Wikidata.

All

...

> the rest is not covered and consequently needs permission. A code like no > for Norwegian is not accepted for instance (indicating both nn and nb). > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 13 June 2016 at 09:04, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> > wrote: >> >> What do you mean with permission? Is it regarding with Wikimedia

language

...

>> code? I usually left the ISO 693-3 code if I couldn't find it. >> >> Best, >> >> 2016-06-11 0:53 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: >>> >>> Hoi, >>> When a language cannot be matched to an ISO-639-3 code, it is necessary >>> to ask for permission from the Language Committee first. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 10 June 2016 at 07:34, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use the code that is made by Statistics Indonesia, it's in PDF >>>> format. Unfortunately, Indonesian government's language body, likely

doesn't

...

>>>> have their own code. Some of language in Indonesia still doesn't have

any

...

>>>> ISO 639-3. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> 2016-06-10 0:36 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: >>>>> >>>>> Hoi, >>>>> Hear hear !! >>>>> >>>>> For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be >>>>> enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and all >>>>> languages to have many labels in their language. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> GerardM >>>>> >>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin >>>>>> <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who

want

...

>>>>>> > to join >>>>>> > please let me know :) >>>>>> >>>>>> This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject

changed!

...

>>> >>> -- >>> Andy Mabbett >>> @pigsonthewing >>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata mailing list >>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > > > -- > > Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 > Wikimedia Indonesia > Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 > Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id > ~~~~ > > Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: > http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

-- Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 Wikimedia Indonesia Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id ~~~~ Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk

Gerard Meijssen

7:16 p.m.

Hoi, What is the point of your advise? What the language committee allows is one dimensional. Dialects are not granted a permit for labels. This only makes sense once we have dictionary functionality. Thanks, GerardM On 13 June 2016 at 18:30, Andrew Gray <andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk> wrote:

...

Thank you Gerard, I usually leave it empty for the language that I couldn't find. Another question, Wikidata have two different item for close term, language in Q315 and language (in linguistics) in Q34770. It's important thing because when I randomly check some of Wikidata using Q315 or Q34770. Any idea how to solve this problem? 2016-06-13 14:14 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: > > Hoi, > The language committee agreed that recognised languages of the iso 639-3 > that indicate single languages may be used without asking on Wikidata.

All

> the rest is not covered and consequently needs permission. A code like

> for Norwegian is not accepted for instance (indicating both nn and nb). > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 13 June 2016 at 09:04, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> > wrote: >> >> What do you mean with permission? Is it regarding with Wikimedia

language

necessary

>>> to ask for permission from the Language Committee first. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 10 June 2016 at 07:34, Biyanto Rebin <

biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id>

>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I use the code that is made by Statistics Indonesia, it's in PDF >>>> format. Unfortunately, Indonesian government's language body, likely

doesn't

>>>> have their own code. Some of language in Indonesia still doesn't

have any

>>> ISO 639-3. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> 2016-06-10 0:36 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com

: >>>>> >>>>> Hoi, >>>>> Hear hear !! >>>>> >>>>> For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be >>>>> enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and all >>>>> languages to have many labels in their language. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> GerardM >>>>> >>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin >>>>>> <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who

want

>>>>>> > to join >>>>>> > please let me know :) >>>>>> >>>>>> This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject

changed!

>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andy Mabbett >>>> @pigsonthewing >>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikidata mailing list >>>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata mailing list >>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 >> Wikimedia Indonesia >> Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 >> Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id >> ~~~~ >> >> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: >> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > -- Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 Wikimedia Indonesia Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id ~~~~ Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Andrew Gray

8:55 p.m.

Hi Gerard, This isn't to do with the question of language labels - it's the (separate) issue of which property should be used when defining a language. We currently have 1,388 instances of P31:Q315, and 7,022 of P31:Q34770, without any obvious reason as to why one or the other. https://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipe… https://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipe… There are also 1,192 instances of P31:Q33384 ("dialect") though a lot of the ones above seem to be dialects, strictly speaking. https://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipe… In total, we have 9,567 items which are using one or more of these, so there's apparently very few using double P31 properties. Definitely an interesting problem to sort out. It looks like we discussed this in 2013 but without really coming to a conclusion: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Interwiki_conflicts/Unresolved/2013#… Andrew. On 13 June 2016 at 18:16, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thank you Gerard, I usually leave it empty for the language that I couldn't find. Another question, Wikidata have two different item for close term, language in Q315 and language (in linguistics) in Q34770. It's important thing because when I randomly check some of Wikidata using Q315 or Q34770. Any idea how to solve this problem? 2016-06-13 14:14 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

Hoi, The language committee agreed that recognised languages of the iso 639-3 that indicate single languages may be used without asking on Wikidata. All the rest is not covered and consequently needs permission. A code like no for Norwegian is not accepted for instance (indicating both nn and nb). Thanks, GerardM On 13 June 2016 at 09:04, Biyanto Rebin <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: > > What do you mean with permission? Is it regarding with Wikimedia > language > code? I usually left the ISO 693-3 code if I couldn't find it. > > Best, > > 2016-06-11 0:53 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: >> >> Hoi, >> When a language cannot be matched to an ISO-639-3 code, it is >> necessary >> to ask for permission from the Language Committee first. >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 10 June 2016 at 07:34, Biyanto Rebin >> <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> >> wrote: >>> >>> I use the code that is made by Statistics Indonesia, it's in PDF >>> format. Unfortunately, Indonesian government's language body, likely >>> doesn't >>> have their own code. Some of language in Indonesia still doesn't >>> have any >>> ISO 639-3. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> 2016-06-10 0:36 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen >>> <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>: >>>> >>>> Hoi, >>>> Hear hear !! >>>> >>>> For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be >>>> enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and >>>> all >>>> languages to have many labels in their language. >>>> Thanks, >>>> GerardM >>>> >>>> On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin >>>>> <biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who >>>>> > want >>>>> > to join >>>>> > please let me know :) >>>>> >>>>> This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject >>>>> changed! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Andy Mabbett >>>>> @pigsonthewing >>>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikidata mailing list >>>>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikidata mailing list >>>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 >>> Wikimedia Indonesia >>> Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 >>> Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id >>> ~~~~ >>> >>> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: >>> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata mailing list >>> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > > > -- > > Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 > Wikimedia Indonesia > Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 > Surel: biyanto.rebin(a)wikimedia.or.id > ~~~~ > > Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: > http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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Andrew Gray
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