Hello GerardM, Interwikis between categories and disambiguation pages serve a purpose, they form a navigational structure to enable people to find information. Certainly navigational pages make information also reachable. I use them, many other users use the interwikilinks, and so on. Romaine --- On Tue, 6/11/13, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible? To: "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2013, 8:10 PM Hoi, The initial application for Wikidata is to replace the interwiki links of Wikipedia. Arguably many of the interwiki links do not serve a purpose. In my opinion there is no need for interwiki linking disambiguation pages or categories. I fail to see the value in these. Having links to Wikivoyage or Wikibooks or Wikisource can have an application. Making use of Wikidata to add tags to Commons is an application that would REALLY help Commons gain usability. Given that Wikidata is NOT Wikipedia, the requirements of notability are not necessarily requirements that are relevant in the Wikidata context. Thanks,      GerardM On 11 June 2013 20:41, David Cuenca <dacuetu(a)gmail.com> wrote: While on the Hackathon I had the opportunity to talk with some people from sister projects about how they view Wikidata and the relationship it should have to sister projects. Probably you are already familiar with the views because they have been presented already several times. The hopes are high, in my opinion too high, about what can be accomplished when Wikidata is deployed to sister projects. There are conflicting needs about what belongs into Wikidata and what sister projects need, and that divide it is far greater to be overcome than just by installing the extension. In fact, I think there is a confusion between the need for Wikidata and the need for structured data. True that Wikidata embodies that technology, but I don't think all problems can be approached by the same centralized tool. At least not from the social side of it. Wikiquote could have one item for each quote, or Wikivoyage an item for each bar, hostel, restaurant, etc..., and the question will always be: are they relevant enough to be created in Wikidata? Considering that Wikidata was initially thought for Wikipedia, that scope wouldn't allow those uses. However, the structured data needs could be covered in other ways. It doesn't need to be a big wikidata addressing it all. It could well be a central Wikidata addressing common issues (like author data, population data, etc), plus other Wikidata installs on each sister project that requires it. For instance there could be a data.wikiquote.org, a data.wikivoyage.org, etc that would cater for the needs of each community, that I predict will increase as soon as the benefits become clear, and of course linked to the central Wikidata whenever needed. Even Commons could be "wikidatized" with each file becoming an item and having different labels representing the file name depending on the language version being accessed. Could be this the right direction to go? Cheers, Micru _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

You probably mean Linked Data? On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:41 PM, David Cuenca <dacuetu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Actually you got to have an item to make use of wikidata properties. I think we are making too much of a deal to get or not to get an item in Wikidata. An item just identify something, whether or not this something is important to knowledge or not. 2013/6/20 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>

I was thinking about items vs properties and Commons. I am not sure a "F" entity is necessary. In theory, each file on Commons can be linked to another one, and each item on WikiData can be linked to another one, but those links do not necessarily need to interconnect with Commons. If a Commons file is not the "best promoted image" of a certain WikiData item, then in my mind it does not need to be in WikiData. Here is an example of what I mean: This is an image of an engraving of Dirk van Hoogstraten: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dirk_van_hoogstraten_by_arnold_houbr… He has a WikiData (person) item that could link to that image here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5280895 The image file is derived from this file: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-… which is a page from a 3-volume book about artists that has a WikiData (book) item (that could use the titlepage of the first volume as linked image). The picture of Hoogstraten on that page was also used later by another engraver in a later book about artists: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-… This second book also has a Wikidata (book) item, and the authors of both books have WikiData (person) items, and so do the engravers of the original engravings. If the original drawing of Dirk Hoogstraten ever comes to light, then that image could be promoted to "best image of Dirk Hoogstraten", and this one can remain on commons, but does not need to be linked to WikiData, or do you think there is a need for this file to have its own "F" status in WikiData? 2013/6/21, David Cuenca <dacuetu(a)gmail.com>om>:

On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote: Yes. The reason to have file entities is mainly to have a platform that can store semantic descriptions of a file. For text searches in classical terms it doesn't matter much, but to search things like: - "portrait engravings by artists born in Dordrecht" - "depictions of Dutch poets born between 1600 and 1700" For these kind of searches, the only possible way to return relevant results is to store the information a semantic way as Wikidata does. As Thomas pointed out, the task to transition to the new method looks somewhat daunting, luckily here there is not much trouble using bots to automate the task filling out the properties of the 17M files. The case of "image promotion" I think it is a different issue that would require some tagging (maybe "best depiction of") or a simple voting system (like in youtube, reddit, etc). It is also important to note that the old issue of sexual content in Commons [1] has gained *a lot* of traction lately since the last three op-ed's questioning/defending its suistainability [2] [3]. Basically there is a need that the searches show what you are looking for and not some other random content. The urgency to present a solution is very high at the moment, a matter of weeks before starting organizing WikiLoveMonuments with a cleaned reputation, so I hope that Wikidata can present a proposal soon that I am sure will be better than this other proposal [4] Cheers, Micru [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-05-10/Commo… [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-12/Op-ed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-19/Op-ed [4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Image_information

This is pretty substantial work, which is both developmentally difficult and will require a lot of effort to maintain. I wouldn't expect that the work will be inexpensive either. -Robert _____ From: Scott MacLeod [mailto:worlduniversityandschool@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:35 PM To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project. Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible? Dear David, Denny and Wikidatans,� Thanks for this email thread.� I'd like to float a proposal for this ecosystem of Wikidatas vis-a-vis World University and School, (which is like Wikipedia with MIT OCW), with our plans for a wiki school or online, Creative Commons' licensed university (with free, online, C.C., MIT-centric, university degrees planned) in all 7,105+ languages and 204+ countries. C.C. WUaS hopes to engage Wikidata, as well.� I've begun a link on the WUaS, wiki, Subjects' page called "Wikidata databases and ecosystem," - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects - which can easily become an extensible, wiki, subject page itself (using a modified version of Wikidata with the WUaS SUBJECT TEMPLATE - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/SUBJECT_TEMPLATE) in all languages and countries, to link all the (small number of) Wikidatas that emerge. (Check out this extensible, WUaS, wiki SUBJECT TEMPLATE, since it has many of the possible categories mentioned above in this email thread).� Here is the beginning, Languages' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages - eventually to link all languages, each as a school or university.� And here is the beginning Nation States' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Nation_States - eventually to link all nation states, each as a school or university.� The wiki, extensible, WUaS all-languages' (7,105 per "Ethnologue") and all-nation states' (204 per "The Olympics") approach has the merit of potentially including all emergent Wikidatas in all languages (for an universal translator - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator), and in all nation states for legal questions, in a way that fully supports the amazing interlingual Wikidata (which is planned for Wikipedia's 285 languages +), and also, - since many/most of these Wikidatas may be data about generative shared knowledge - will therefore fit well with World University and School which is for open, free, wiki, people-to-people teaching and learning.� Best regards,� Scott On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 6:42 AM, David Cuenca <dacuetu(a)gmail.com> wrote: On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote: [...] do you think there is a need for this file to have its own "F" status in WikiData? Yes. The reason to have file entities is mainly to have a platform that can store semantic descriptions of a file. For text searches in classical terms it doesn't matter much, but to search things like: - "portrait engravings by artists born in Dordrecht" - "depictions of Dutch poets born between 1600 and 1700" For these kind of searches, the only possible way to return relevant results is to store the information a semantic way as Wikidata does. As Thomas pointed out, the task to transition to the new method looks somewhat daunting, luckily here there is not much trouble using bots to automate the task filling out the properties of the 17M files. The case of "image promotion" I think it is a different issue that would require some tagging (maybe "best depiction of") or a simple voting system (like in youtube, reddit, etc). It is also important to note that the old issue of sexual content in Commons [1] has gained *a lot* of traction lately since the last three op-ed's questioning/defending its suistainability [2] [3]. Basically there is a need that the searches show what you are looking for and not some other random content. The urgency to present a solution is very high at the moment, a matter of weeks before starting organizing WikiLoveMonuments with a cleaned reputation, so I hope that Wikidata can present a proposal soon that I am sure will be better than this other proposal [4] Cheers, Micru [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-05-10/Commo… [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-12/Op-ed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-19/Op-ed [4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Image_information _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -- Scott MacLeod Founder & President http://scottmacleod.com --� World University and School (like Wikipedia with MIT OpenCourseWare) http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects World University and School is a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt, educational organization.� P.O. Box 442, �� (86 Ridgecrest Road),� Canyon, CA 94516 415 480 4577 worldunivandsch(a)scottmacleod.com worlduniversityandschool(a)gmail.com Skype: scottm100 Google + main, WUaS page:� https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/108179352492243955816/108179352492243955816/p… Please contribute, and invite friends to contribute, tax deductibly, via PayPal and credit card:� http://scottmacleod.com/worlduniversityandschool.htm. World University and School is sending you this because of your interest in free, online, higher education. If you don't want to receive these, please reply with 'remove' in the subject line. Thank you.�

Robert and Jane, Robert, great ... To further support an ecosystem of Wikidatas, I hope we might develop World University and School in Wikidata together. How might we best make this happen? (What might be the very first steps to begin moving from the current Wikia to Wikidata, if this is possible?) Jane, is this the Alex Peek you're referring to - https://plus.google.com/101478728961573967739/posts ? And concerning libraries, museums, as well as a WUaS Music School (all instruments in all languages, each a wiki, subject page to begin), Jane, WUaS plans, again in all 7,105+ languages and 204+ countries, a kind of ecosystem of databases, by facilitating the wiki-aggregation and wiki-curation (and perhaps eventually wiki-development in virtual worlds with geo-coordinates) all libraries and museums with significant, online, open, free content - Library Resources - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources Museums - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Museums World University Music School - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/World_University_Music_School In terms of a complementary to Wikicommons' ecosystem of databases, here's a helpful overview about all-languages' and all-countries' World University and School's nine main areas, from the following WUaS blog entry - Courses <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Courses> Subjects <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects> Languages <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages> (All) Nation States <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Nation_States%20> (All) You at WUaS <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/You_at_World_University> Research <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Research> Educational Software<http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Educational_Software> Library Resources <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources> Museums <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Museums> Hardware Resource Possibilities <http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Hardware_Resource_Possibilities> "Three, main, I.T. foci at World University & School, Music School, Universal Translator, Virtual Earth as 'classroom'"- http://worlduniversityandschool.blogspot.com/2012/02/three-main-it-foci-at-… ... All of these 9 areas are resources for WUaS's free, online, C.C. MIT OCW-centric (and C.C. Yale OYC), C.C. WUaS university degrees accrediting in many languages and countries, beginning with English and then in the United Nations' languages, and then others. (WUaS recently received the 'green light' in the state of California to begin the accreditation process! - which is great news for free, C.C., online, MIT OCW-centric university degrees in many countries and languages). Cheers, Scott On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Scott MacLeod Founder & President http://scottmacleod.com -- World University and School (like Wikipedia with MIT OpenCourseWare) http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects World University and School is a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt, educational organization. P.O. Box 442, (86 Ridgecrest Road), Canyon, CA 94516 415 480 4577 worldunivandsch(a)scottmacleod.com worlduniversityandschool(a)gmail.com Skype: scottm100 Google + main, WUaS page: https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/108179352492243955816/108179352492243955816/p… Please contribute, and invite friends to contribute, tax deductibly, via PayPal and credit card: http://scottmacleod.com/worlduniversityandschool.htm. World University and School is sending you this because of your interest in free, online, higher education. If you don't want to receive these, please reply with 'remove' in the subject line. Thank you.