Hi all, I'm wondering about one usage Wikidata could be useful to Wikipedias : Redlinks subject identification.
Wikidata is good to identify subjects. Redlinks are used in Wikipedias to identify subjects with currently no article.
I post here because I think there is something to integrate this further, but I don't know exactly what.
A quick review about the current mechanisms we have to link items and/or articles and subjects together : * Wikidata interwikis. This works well. Links an item to articles and articles titles * articles redirect. This also works well, now we have a mechanism to link article redirects with items, which is cool. * There is currently templates like https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6519884 or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q15977575 Interesting mechanisms actually * Wikidata items aliases : links a set of lexemes to an item * Special:ItemByTitle and Special:GoToLinkedPage which are great, I don't know how much they are used in practice though
A little bit different but close * items redirects
This seems this covers a lot of the user usecases. Yet there is a lot of red links in Wikipedia with actually no links to a Wikidata item.
My feeling is that what actually lacks in this picture is that the templates are a bit hackish and that a deeper integration of item numbers with redlinks would allow to go further and encourage users to make the links at an earlier stage. What about a Wikisyntax to put an item number into a Wikilink or a visual editor integration to suggest an entity every time a user wants to enter a redlink ?
This seems a low hanging fruit for WIkidata development and could make Wikidata more real to Wikipedia communities. Especially compared to doing this at the community level where this would require a big maintenance effort and community knowledge about the templates to make the link beetween the red label and the corresponding item concrete, especially if visual editor make the information come to eveyone.
One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list ?
One other thing that I thought about it is to use it in ContentTranslation (a.k.a CX).[1]
In ContentTranslation we have a link adaptation feature - if an article is available in the target language, it's automatically inserted as a link to the translation. In the current code, if the article doesn't exist in the target, nothing is done - it remains plain text.
It could be more useful to insert a red link if Wikidata has a label in the target language.
Furthermore, if there is no label in the target, the translation interface could ask the translator to supply a label, and then that label could be inserted into the translation as a red link AND committed as a label to Wikidata.
[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2014-09-06 13:51 GMT+03:00 Thomas Douillard thomas.douillard@gmail.com:
Hi all, I'm wondering about one usage Wikidata could be useful to Wikipedias : Redlinks subject identification.
Wikidata is good to identify subjects. Redlinks are used in Wikipedias to identify subjects with currently no article.
I post here because I think there is something to integrate this further, but I don't know exactly what.
A quick review about the current mechanisms we have to link items and/or articles and subjects together :
- Wikidata interwikis. This works well. Links an item to articles and
articles titles
- articles redirect. This also works well, now we have a mechanism to link
article redirects with items, which is cool.
- There is currently templates like https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6519884
or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q15977575 Interesting mechanisms actually
- Wikidata items aliases : links a set of lexemes to an item
- Special:ItemByTitle and Special:GoToLinkedPage which are great, I don't
know how much they are used in practice though
A little bit different but close
- items redirects
This seems this covers a lot of the user usecases. Yet there is a lot of red links in Wikipedia with actually no links to a Wikidata item.
My feeling is that what actually lacks in this picture is that the templates are a bit hackish and that a deeper integration of item numbers with redlinks would allow to go further and encourage users to make the links at an earlier stage. What about a Wikisyntax to put an item number into a Wikilink or a visual editor integration to suggest an entity every time a user wants to enter a redlink ?
This seems a low hanging fruit for WIkidata development and could make Wikidata more real to Wikipedia communities. Especially compared to doing this at the community level where this would require a big maintenance effort and community knowledge about the templates to make the link beetween the red label and the corresponding item concrete, especially if visual editor make the information come to eveyone.
One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list ?
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
One quick idea of which I'm not quite sure if your idea covers or not: Inside an article in language A is a red link to a non-existing article in that language but it does exist for language B. Interacting with the red link in the wiki for language A offers the option of reading it in language B. Could be quite useful in cases where a lot of people who understand language A also understand language B.
With regards, Svavar Kjarrval
On 06/09/14 10:51, Thomas Douillard wrote:
Hi all, I'm wondering about one usage Wikidata could be useful to Wikipedias : Redlinks subject identification.
Wikidata is good to identify subjects. Redlinks are used in Wikipedias to identify subjects with currently no article.
I post here because I think there is something to integrate this further, but I don't know exactly what.
A quick review about the current mechanisms we have to link items and/or articles and subjects together :
- Wikidata interwikis. This works well. Links an item to articles and
articles titles
- articles redirect. This also works well, now we have a mechanism to
link article redirects with items, which is cool.
- There is currently templates like
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6519884 or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q15977575 Interesting mechanisms actually
- Wikidata items aliases : links a set of lexemes to an item
- Special:ItemByTitle and Special:GoToLinkedPage which are great, I
don't know how much they are used in practice though
A little bit different but close
- items redirects
This seems this covers a lot of the user usecases. Yet there is a lot of red links in Wikipedia with actually no links to a Wikidata item.
My feeling is that what actually lacks in this picture is that the templates are a bit hackish and that a deeper integration of item numbers with redlinks would allow to go further and encourage users to make the links at an earlier stage. What about a Wikisyntax to put an item number into a Wikilink or a visual editor integration to suggest an entity every time a user wants to enter a redlink ?
This seems a low hanging fruit for WIkidata development and could make Wikidata more real to Wikipedia communities. Especially compared to doing this at the community level where this would require a big maintenance effort and community knowledge about the templates to make the link beetween the red label and the corresponding item concrete, especially if visual editor make the information come to eveyone.
One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list ?
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hey Thomas :)
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Thomas Douillard thomas.douillard@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all, I'm wondering about one usage Wikidata could be useful to Wikipedias : Redlinks subject identification.
Wikidata is good to identify subjects. Redlinks are used in Wikipedias to identify subjects with currently no article.
I post here because I think there is something to integrate this further, but I don't know exactly what.
A quick review about the current mechanisms we have to link items and/or articles and subjects together :
- Wikidata interwikis. This works well. Links an item to articles and
articles titles
- articles redirect. This also works well, now we have a mechanism to link
article redirects with items, which is cool.
- There is currently templates like https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6519884
or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q15977575 Interesting mechanisms actually
- Wikidata items aliases : links a set of lexemes to an item
- Special:ItemByTitle and Special:GoToLinkedPage which are great, I don't
know how much they are used in practice though
A little bit different but close
- items redirects
This seems this covers a lot of the user usecases. Yet there is a lot of red links in Wikipedia with actually no links to a Wikidata item.
My feeling is that what actually lacks in this picture is that the templates are a bit hackish and that a deeper integration of item numbers with redlinks would allow to go further and encourage users to make the links at an earlier stage. What about a Wikisyntax to put an item number into a Wikilink or a visual editor integration to suggest an entity every time a user wants to enter a redlink ?
This seems a low hanging fruit for WIkidata development and could make Wikidata more real to Wikipedia communities. Especially compared to doing this at the community level where this would require a big maintenance effort and community knowledge about the templates to make the link beetween the red label and the corresponding item concrete, especially if visual editor make the information come to eveyone.
One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list ?
This is indeed an interesting topic and something I want to get done as well. From the development team's side this isn't something we can tackle at the moment but I'd definitely like to see this done and am happy to help with specs and all.
As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific item and then another person comes and creates an article under the same name but for a different topic we have an issue.
Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to help with implementation.
Cheers Lydia
2014-09-15 16:16 GMT+03:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific item and then another person comes and creates an article under the same name but for a different topic we have an issue.
Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to help with implementation.
As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. Creating a sitelink without a target article is not desirable. A translated label should be good enough as the basis for the name of the future article.
I hope to integrate this as smoothly as possible into the ContentTranslation workflow Some Time Soon.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
I agree with Amir.
Especially since we can use aliases to record possible alternative names as well.
Joe On 15 Sep 2014 15:20, "Amir E. Aharoni" amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
2014-09-15 16:16 GMT+03:00 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific item and then another person comes and creates an article under the same name but for a different topic we have an issue.
Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to help with implementation.
As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. Creating a sitelink without a target article is not desirable. A translated label should be good enough as the basis for the name of the future article.
I hope to integrate this as smoothly as possible into the ContentTranslation workflow Some Time Soon.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough.
Another thing that can be done for links that do not exist on the translation, is to create the red link on the translated article and annotate it with the Wikidata Q-ID of the corresponding source link. So that when the article is finally created, all annotated red links can be turn into blue links.
That will allow us to know which concept a given redlink is about and suggest a user to translate the article from a language in which the content is available.
Pau
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Joe Filceolaire filceolaire@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with Amir.
Especially since we can use aliases to record possible alternative names as well.
Joe On 15 Sep 2014 15:20, "Amir E. Aharoni" amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
2014-09-15 16:16 GMT+03:00 Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de
: As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific item and then another person comes and creates an article under the same name but for a different topic we have an issue.
Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to help with implementation.
As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. Creating a sitelink without a target article is not desirable. A translated label should be good enough as the basis for the name of the future article.
I hope to integrate this as smoothly as possible into the ContentTranslation workflow Some Time Soon.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Citiranje Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de:
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Thomas Douillard thomas.douillard@gmail.com wrote: As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific item and then another person comes and creates an article under the same name but for a different topic we have an issue.
This is a problem, though note that it can already happen if someone changes the topic of an existing article.
Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to help with implementation.
Some time ago I wrote http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Article_generation . If it is too confusing, I am here to clarify it. (Or if it is outright wrong, I am here as well :) )
Permanently looming above us: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Filling_red_links_with_Wikidata
Thomas Douillard, 06/09/2014 12:51:
One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list ?
This is something I've been wondering about as well. Once {{bio}} on it.wiki fetches data from Wikidata (sorry, always the same example!), I could produce a decent stub just by pasting "{{bio}}" in a red link, (preview and) continue from there. Currently, however, I'd have to create a placeholder page, associate it to the Wikidata item, see what happened, continue from there; or pretend Wikidata doesn't exist, do useless manual business as usual, let a bot clean up the excess work. A middle way is to let me associate the page *while* creating it, so that I can preview.
Nemo
Stupid question: would it be possible to write {{bio}} so that you could use:
{{bio|Q12345678}}
and have the template pull out all the data for Q12345678 rather than the linked page? If so that would seem to handle this particular problem...
Andrew.
On 15 September 2014 17:05, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Permanently looming above us: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Filling_red_links_with_Wikidata
Thomas Douillard, 06/09/2014 12:51:
One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list ?
This is something I've been wondering about as well. Once {{bio}} on it.wiki fetches data from Wikidata (sorry, always the same example!), I could produce a decent stub just by pasting "{{bio}}" in a red link, (preview and) continue from there. Currently, however, I'd have to create a placeholder page, associate it to the Wikidata item, see what happened, continue from there; or pretend Wikidata doesn't exist, do useless manual business as usual, let a bot clean up the excess work. A middle way is to let me associate the page *while* creating it, so that I can preview.
Nemo
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
On 15.09.2014 20:40, Andrew Gray wrote:
Stupid question: would it be possible to write {{bio}} so that you could use:
{{bio|Q12345678}}
and have the template pull out all the data for Q12345678 rather than the linked page? If so that would seem to handle this particular problem...
Andrew.
This is an important problem for Wikivoyage, where we do not keep pages for separate monuments/sights but link to them from just one page of a city or region. It would be great to be able to get some info from Wikidata not just from the item corresponding the page one is at, but also to other pages, but we were told that this is absolutely impossible.
Cheers Yaroslav
Hey :)
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote:
This is an important problem for Wikivoyage, where we do not keep pages for separate monuments/sights but link to them from just one page of a city or region. It would be great to be able to get some info from Wikidata not just from the item corresponding the page one is at, but also to other pages, but we were told that this is absolutely impossible.
It is not absolutely impossible. It just needs to be implemented still. The tracking bug for that is https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47930
Cheers Lydia