Saluton Nicolas,Le 30/11/2017 à 00:23, Nicolas VIGNERON a écrit :
That's perfectly plausible that my view is fuelled with biases and misjudgements, and that's why I'm looking for feedback that might help in correcting them if needed. I prefer to expose my errors blatantly and seize opportunities to correct them rather than confine myself in my possibly misguided views.Mathieu,I know you and like you personally, that why I can say that this mail is clearly not your best argument.
Despite saying multiple times this is not a manifesto nor against Wikidata, your mail seems clearly fuelled with biases and misjudgements (especially Wikidata can't be « discontinued quietly » not now that it's so widely used in Wikimedia projects, even the wiktionaries are *already* using Wikidata).
First, if people felt personally assaulted by my message, I apologize. I wasn't aware that treating a topic point by point extensively could be perceived as such a violent behaviour. I don't want to harass anyone, I want to get constructive feedback on this topic from as many people of our community that I can get. If there are better way to achieve this through documented peaceful process, I would welcome references to this kind of documentation. And if we don't have that kind of documentation, I think it would be interesting that we build one.Dissecting each single phrase point by point is violent, borderline mean and definitely not constructive ; cross-posting this mail on multiple places doesn't help either. This is not the good way to debate peacefully.
Actually, with CC0 – if it appeared that all the data contained in Wikidata really can be published under CC0 – we could switch the whole database to whatever license we want. That was even explicitly stated as is at the start of the project that:
For better or worse, Wikidata choose CC0 and it will be quite difficult to change the licence now (the example of licence change on OpenStreetMap illustrate it quite painfully).
So do I understand it correctly that during development and testing, we can can go with CC-0, and later relicense to whatever seems suitable, which is possible with CC-0?, Denny Vrandečić, https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata//2012-April/000185.htmlBut as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't suggest for such a unilateral move. For me, just allowing a tracking of license for each item would be enough.
I'm interested with links to this community discussions and clear approval of the community.We have to get approval of the community, there was multiple lengthy and non-conclusive discussions, it's not something that will be done with a ranting mail.
I agree with that, or at least that it would be very positive for our community to have this kind of tools.For me, the situation is quite simple, Wikidata needs lexiographical data and the Wikimedia projects needs Wikidata to have these data.
It's not suggestion, it's what Wikidata is already doing with Wikipedia, despite the initial statement of Wikidata team that it wouldn't do that because it's illegal :Nobody suggest in no way to do license laundering nor to violates Wiktionaries licence,
"Alexrk2, it is true that Wikidata under CC0 would not be allowed to import content from a Share-Alike data source. Wikidata does not plan to extract content out of Wikipedia at all. Wikidata will provide data that can be reused in the Wikipedias."I think that the extent to which massive import without respecting license of the source should be investigated properly by the Wikimedia legal team, or some qualified consultants.
– Denny Vrandečić https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikidata#Is_CC_the_right_license_for_data.3F
I agree with that. All the more, all this material we imported helped much in populating the project, but it often includes heavy biases, outdated definitions which are not marked as is, completely sexists and racists definitions that we are improving with the goals and values of our movement in mind. So it's not just expertise of contributors, but also all the work they already achieved that should be mergeable in the Wikidata solution. Only allowing CC0 will make that impossible.in fact we could simply import Public Domain sources (in the same way the wiktionaries did, in frwikt a big chunk of entries come from the Littré and the Dictionnaire de l’Académie française, and there is enough dictionaries waiting in the Wikisources to keep us busy for years) but it would be a shame for Wikidata to not profits from wiktionarists expertise.
I'm not trying to destroy the work of any part of our community, but on the contrary I'm aiming at protect its sustainability. If my concerns are only mere delusions, that's great. But if it's not, I would feel ashamed in the future that I suspected possible avoidable bad scenario and did nothing about that.Let's get over the petty and unsolvable issues and work intelligently and pragmatically to improve Wikidata.You entitled to disagree with the way that has been chosen and not take part in it (and from your editcount, I see that you don't) but please don't destroy others efforts and try to be more aligned with the wiki-spirit.
A galon, ~nicolas
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