After playing around with these lists, I think I would like to be able to use the Wikidata list item to store specific list-related information. So this is definitely sort order, but also maybe the number of items and the column width definition to show in the list (theoretically some of the items will have tons and tons of data on them that you may not want to show in a simple list). Looking briefly at Andy's list for public art, that list was full of custom information including comments about the statues. Then of course there is the header and footer of the list, where you want to say briefly what it is a list of and how it is sourced. In my case, I want to include the sizes of paintings, which you can't show in Wikidata so I need to add a column anyway (and the dates are messed up - for some reason my years are coming out of Wikidata as January 1st XXXX)

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske@googlemail.com> wrote:
Would a parameter where you can list the Q items (e.g. "custom_sort=Q1,Q5,Q17...") be sufficient? Should items not in that list be added at the end, or quietly dropped?


On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 12:33 PM Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry I didn't finish my thought. It's not that I don't trust other Wikidata users to add items about Suze Robertson paintings. It is more that there is just a lot of handwork in such lists (especially the list order). I think in a list item there should be some way to add a custom-order to the items to be displayed.

On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi let me just weigh in as a "power user" here. Though I love Wikidata, I must admit that it didn't even occur to me to put the list builder function in the main namespace. Since I read that comment yesterday I have been thinking about how this could be possible. I sort of follow what Romaine is saying, in that it could be useful to have an extra namespace for lists. I was also thinking that maybe we could do it another way. Right now Wikipedia has lists, such as the list of paintings by Suze Robertson. I happen to know that list is not complete (because I made it). The list article has a Wikidata item. There should be a way to set up a query so that any new items coming in will be sent to the editor's watchlist through the new list function, and then the list-editor can choose to link that item (or not) to the Wikidata list item. I think a live Wikipedia article should be linked to a Wikidata list item, not a query result.

On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de> wrote:
On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> First I must say I can't speak for the Dutch community, I can only try to
> sense how pages with coding are perceived. Seeing the editwars about users
> from outside the Dutch community adding properties to articles, seeing the
> following discussion, and seeing the general discussion about automated
> lists on nlwiki, I do not think this will happen. Based on this I can only
> draw the conclusion that the community will not accept automated lists in
> the article namespace. Being able to click in the top of the page on edit
> and then edit the page, is perceived as basic value of Wikipedia, an
> unwritten rule that may not be broken.
> Having these codes in the article namespace will scare people off.
>
> At the same time I personally see some value in automated lists. I also
> noticed in the discussions that if users use these codes in their user
> namespace or in pages of wikiprojects, that it is not so much a problem. As
> I think that automated lists are not allowed in the main namespace, while
> they do have some value, I think it is more likely to create a separated
> namespace for this kind of lists. In that way all pages in the article
> namespace stay editable and at the same time this information is available
> on Wikipedia. A namespace called "List:" or in Dutch: "Lijst:".
>
> I also should mention that the first priority of Wikipedia is not to be
> up-to-date, because Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and its nature is being
> running behind. This is the priority and the focus, this does not mean it
> can't be up-to-date.
>
> So it matters not so much if the knowledge is or isn't available in the
> Dutch Wikipedia, it does matter for users that all pages in the article
> namespace stay without codes, that these pages stay editable in that page
> itself. And it also matters that linking to other Wikipedias is not allowed
> in pages in the article namespace. While we did not have a voting about
> whether it is allowed to link to Wikidata, but having seen earlier a
> discussion about linking to Q...'s which was ending in the conclusion being
> not wanted, I think that links in articles to Wikidata items when there is
> no article in Dutch, will not be allowed.

Yeah this is my impression as well of the current status. Let's all
just give it time. Editors need time to get comfortable with Wikidata.
The more comfortable they are with using it and the more they trust it
the more it'll be used. So let's keep building this trust :)


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

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