...I did not say "automatically translate into my on language everybody should speak as I'm the only True One in the Universe and everybody should bow and learn and pray I'll treat them well and talk in my own language otherwise bad things will happen",I said "transliterate in the main users language", the same reason we translate the UI,, the help pages, the Wikipedia articles and so on.2015-05-01 16:40 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:Hoi,A name in a script that does not make sense to you is a standard to what? Do not put yourself at the centre of the galaxy... It is a few years ago, that it was proven earth did not centre the sun and the sun is only a spec in our galaxy.Thanks,GerardMOn 1 May 2015 at 11:00, Thomas Douillard <thomas.douillard@gmail.com> wrote:An official name in an alphabet I don't understand does not give me any useful information, not even an idea of how it is said.It may be the only information we have for sur of some item. I say it's a good idea to give the official name in the original language together with a transliteration in the user language. I don't understand how it could be a bad idea.2015-05-01 7:14 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:Hoi,It is still a bad idea. An official name exists only in one language.Thanks,GerardMOn 30 April 2015 at 18:50, Thomas Douillard <thomas.douillard@gmail.com> wrote:I meant "add automatically the transliteration", not replace the name.This is a good candidate : we know for sure the source and the target language (the one of the user) so a good choice for transliteration method is always possible, and we don't pretend it should be the way to say orally the name in the target language. It's just a transliteration of the official name.2015-04-30 15:14 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:GerardMThanks,Hoi,It does not quality anything. It is plain wrong.On 30 April 2015 at 15:06, Joe Filceolaire <filceolaire@gmail.com> wrote:Exactly. The "official name " property always has the name in the original script. But we can and should have the transliteration in a qualifier.
Joe
On 30 Apr 2015 06:13, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:GerardMThanks,Hoi,We transliterate every name from one script to the other. Transliteration the official name is exactly the one you should not transliterate.. What is left after transliteration is not official.On 29 April 2015 at 18:54, Thomas Douillard <thomas.douillard@gmail.com> wrote:It's always possible to transliterate the official name property. Of course this should be done by a gadget, or we may have to find a special treatment for the ''name'' properties.2015-04-28 23:06 GMT+02:00 Joe Filceolaire <filceolaire@gmail.com>:I agree up to a point. Transliteration is not appropriate for labels for all items. There are however a few categories of items for which transliterated labels are appropriate. For example :
* English labels for villages and towns
* English labels for people
*English labels for bands and albums
I'm sure there are others that could use this too.Joe
On 27 Apr 2015 18:09, "Leon Liesener" <leon.liesener@wikipedia.de> wrote:The problem with ISO is that it's a standard for language-independent
transliteration to Latin script. Since labels on Wikidata are
language-dependent, making use of ISO does not make sense really. If
you use ISO for Russian names in Cyrillic script, the label you get is
not in English. It's still in Russian but transliterated to Latin
script. ISO thus would only fit as an alias for the Russian interface
language, if at all.
2015-04-26 22:39 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:
> Hoi,
> <grin> ISO is a reliable source; it is THE standard </grin> Wikipedia is
> definitely not a standard by its own admission.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 26 April 2015 at 22:37, Yaroslav M. Blanter <putevod@mccme.ru> wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-04-26 22:33, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>
>>> Hoi
>>> My point is that it is not a given that we should follow any WIkipedia
>>> for anything. Also the point of romanisation of Russian is not for the
>>> benefit of Russian speakers, it is for the speakers of English.
>>> Thanks,
>>> GerardM
>>>
>>
>> On one hand, yes.
>>
>> On the other hand, no reliable source uses ISO. When NYT writes about a
>> Russian person, they do not use ISO, they use what the English Wikipedia
>> uses or smth similar. In my passport, they do not use ISO (fortunately), why
>> should then ISO be used on Wikidata in an entry about me?
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
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