No James, redirects do not have templates or categories. Back to the case of the African plum, I have created an English label for the Wikidata item, so that when I seach the English Wikipedia and choose the option "everything", this Wikidata item will show up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&search=african+plum&fulltext=Search

If I had created a redirect in the English Wikipedia for "African plum" to "Plum", than of course that is what would come up. In this case the search is giving me more precise information.

The problem with redirects when they aren't used as synonyms is that they direct readers to something else that they might or might not recognize as being something else. Within one project this may not be a problem, but going from Korean into English or the other way around you could become easily misled by the redirect rabbit-hole.

On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:55 PM, James Heald <j.heald@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
But Gerard templates and the categories used on the *redirect* will be specific to the redirect, so can draw quite happily from the item corresponding to the redirect.

And templates and categories used on the *article* will be specific to the article, so can draw quite happily from the item corresponding to the article.

I don't see where the problem is ?

  -- James.


On 19/10/2014 21:44, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
I am very comfortable with items not having articles. I am very comfortable
with items that have one or more articles.

When you suggest that Wikidata items link to redirects, there are many
assumptions that break down. You cannot longer assume what the templates,
the categories are about. They are NOT necessarily about the article, they
may be about all kinds of everything.

The notion that Wikidata is subservient to Wikipedia can be considered but
WHAT Wikipedia and why should Wikidata be subservient to the English
Wikipedia ?

Some people "representing" the English Wikipedia make demands however,
Wikidata can provide services the English Wikipedia is not able to provide.
Things like providing search results based on information from Wikidata.
Why is this not even considered?
Thanks,
         GerardM


On 19 October 2014 18:54, rupert THURNER <rupert.thurner@gmail.com> wrote:

david, i think you hit the major point here. at the end of the day it
is a document management problem, and the idea to recombine contents
is followed by some extensions, like books extension. would it make
sense to use wikidata for such tasks as well? i am not convinced that
it makes sense to go onto a sentence level, but paragraphs do imo make
sense. alone because e.g. the german wikipedia often stores an item in
a paragraph, what is stored in an article in the english wikipedia.
redirects are managed in de:wp, and there is no notion of storing
wrong redirects to cover typo's.

of course there are some wikidata purists, like jane and gerard, who
seem to be a little imprisoned in the original semantic mediawiki
notation that every entry needs to be an article. one may even
consider this opinion as correct in a greenfield approach where the
contents is created from scratch. but - unfortunately this is not the
case. wikidata came after wikipedia, and i consider it a fundamental
failure of wikidata to not address the issue.

rupert

On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 1:03 AM, David Cuenca <dacuetu@gmail.com> wrote:
As Wikidata grows this problem will become more significant. Using
redirects
doesn't seem a sustainable approach, but it will be hard to find better
ones
considering the number of people involved and the investment in the
current
platform.

The biggest challenge will be to convince Wikipedians to break free of
the
"article box". There is no reason to limit oneself to articles when there
can be smaller building blocks that can be recombined in different
articles
with as much detail level as needed.

Maybe after Commons there should be also a "Wikidata for Wikipedia
content",
where each article section or sentence is represented by an item that
can be
displayed in several articles or translated into different languages.

Cheers,
Micru


On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Derric Atzrott
<datzrott@alizeepathology.com> wrote:

Thought I'd throw in my opinion on the matter.  After reading this
thread
I think that I agree with the folks who believe that Wikidata items
should
be able to specify a Wikipedia article that is a redirect as a sitelink
to
Wikipedia.

Its by no means an ideal solution, but I can't see any problems that it
causes and I do see problems that it fixes.  If there are problems /for
Wikidata/ that allowing Wikidata items to link to Wikipedia redirects
causes, I would be happy to hear them.  I imagine someone likely tried
to point some out, but I just didn't quite grasp them.

Thank you,
Derric Atzrott


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