Great, GerardM and Wikidatans, 

Let's build on this. 

Scott

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:55 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:

Hoi,

One way to bring the different view points together is to consider a halfway house (with benefits of its own). Currently there is this opinion that a binary issue exists; you either import from Wikidata or you have your data at your project.

This is not necessary; what could be done is to have a value where the local data is fixed and shown and in the background there is a link to the statement in Wikidata. When the two values are the same, everything is fine. When the two values differ, there is an issue at either the local project or at Wikidata.

A bot or some functionality highlights on an article level or on a project level or on a Wikimedia level where there are differences. This can be an extremely useful tool against vandalism. When the difference is legitimate; someone died, a town has a new mayor, whatever typically this one statement is not the only value that needs fixing. Articles need to be adapted, other statements need to be changed..

Crucially when changes are made based on a difference, the relevance of sources is higher.

An approach like this gives no higher relevance to either Wikidata, the local project(s) and it adds a level of trust to the totality of what we do. It does allow any project that wants to, to import data directly from Wikidata for specific fields of knowledge where there is not the manpower to maintain all the diffs.

Thanks,

      GerardM

On 6 October 2017 at 22:42, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@gmail.com> wrote:

I think infoboxes and Wikidata crosses the line from invisible to highly visible, which is why we are seeing a more in-depth discussion now. Plus, the whole area of infoboxes (even without Wikidata) has been a battleground.

In the Facebook group Wikipedia Weekly, one of the folks from pt.wp mentioned that they had a whole summit about Wikipedia and Wikidata integration, with infoboxes at the center of discussion:

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Edit-a-thon/Atividades_em_portugu%C3%AAs/Wikidata_Lab_I

João Alexandre Peschanski: ”Amidst intense discussions on the use of automated infoboxes on Wikipedia in Portuguese, we held yesterday a Wikidata Lab, specifically on how to build these automated infoboxes and took this as an opportunity to calmly discuss benefits and pitfalls of these infoboxes as is. We will hold a second Wikidata Lab in November on preparing automated lists.”

-Andrew

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:05 AM, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, this sounds like correct. When Wikidata was about interwiki links, nobody cared because nobody cared about interwiki links. Then it started to be about the templates, but still nobody cared because nobody noticed. Now they did, and there are already some users whoc want to "ban" Wikidata.

Cheers

Yaroslav

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:

I think this is why it has escalated now, rather than a few years ago. It is only now that the mono-lingual English Wikipedians are being confronted with Wikidata labels via mobile access and they just have not had much exposure until now. The debate centers on infoboxes, but the resentment comes from a feeling of helplessness caused by complete ignorance of how to "fix" mistakes they see popping up in either an infobox or on mobile. I think that the communication about Wikidata has been fairly good consistently, but this is not enough for people who didn't listen "because it's about other languages I don't speak". Now it has grown to be something that is on their radar. I think that is a good thing. 

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, most (I guess) English Wikipedia active users do not speak any languages other than English, and they are not in a position to appreciate that there could be Wikimedia projects beyond the English Wikipedia worthwhile to talk about. I remember once the Signpost asked a user who was indefinitely blocked on the English Wikivoyage to write the article on Wikivoyage. The article of course contained all the standard prejudices but in particular it said that the only Wikivoyage was the English Wikivoyage. On the talk page I objected, and the answer was: Who cares about other languages?

Cheers

Yaroslav

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@gmail.com> wrote:

To be sure, some of the arguments had merit - better sourcing needed, BLP, user interface improvements, etc. 

But I was astonished to see many remarks amounting to, “Never Wikidata.” 

A significant number saw EN.WP as its own exceptional isolated sustainable entity that would only be polluted or weakened by decentralizing control with Wikidata-generated content. Or that the sharing in the sum of all human knowledge (and therefore, citations) was of no interest.

That’s quite sad to see.

-Andrew

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt@gmail.com> wrote:

I would say the arguments of users who voted to delete the template have merit, and the template was kept (and not even banished to the draft space) under the condition that attemps will be made to reduce the issues.

Cheers

Yaroslav

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Robert Fernandez <wikigamaliel@gmail.com> wrote:

While Wikidata certainly has concerns to deal with about accuracy and vandalism, I think we need to push back against this mindset that Wikipedia works perfectly while Wikidata is this unregulated free-for-all.  I've run into editors on en.wp objecting to a Wikidata infobox displaying the very same information that was unsourced in that Wikipedia article for nearly a decade.  Both are a work in progress, both can do better, and these should not be barriers to progress or integration. 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

On 19 September 2017 at 19:18, Dario Taraborelli
<dtaraborelli@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> I wanted to draw your attention to a deletion nomination discussion for an
> experimental template – {{Cite Q}} – pulling bibliographic data from
> Wikidata:

Closed as "no consensus"; it's worth reading the full comment:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2017_September_15&curid=55240730&diff=803445497&oldid=803444684

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