On Mon Feb 09 2015 at 10:59:12 Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de> wrote:

@Gerard, @Magnus: please help me out here.

I agree that automatic descriptions are very useful. I also think that in *some*
cases, manual descriptions are more useful, and maybe even needed.

Yes.

I definitely think that 3rd party consumers of wikidata should not have to think
about whether descriptions have been written manually or were created
automatically. This should be completely transparent.

My autodesc API serves both at the moment, so the consumer can decide which one they want to use. Automatic descriptions can "miss the point" sometimes, but are generally more up-to-date.

So, if you want to help with making automated description a reality, please make
suggestions that take into account the above points, and also consider the
mechanisms for language fallback.

From my point of view, this is the "evolution" of automatic descriptions (ADs):

1. web-based tools as proof-of-concept. This is done.

2. web-based API to standardise automatic descriptions, and make them easily accessible for everyone. I am trying to do that now,

3. WMF/Wikibase-team picks up the API code, or writes their own; integration into MediaWiki/extension, with proper language generation in many languages, good caching/invalidation, API integration etc. Waiting for that :-)

The only thing that I can think of right away is simply inserting automated
descriptions by bot. This isn't ideal, but I can't think of a better solution
that wouldn't be hugely complicated (and would thus not be implemented any time
soon). Maybe you have ideas?

I think that would be a massive waste, and it would miss one of the points of AD, which is improvement with more/better statements.

What I /can/ see is a cached AD in a new field, one which gets invalidated on every item edit, and maybe on every related item edit (new/better labels for description). The wb_terms table could support that easily, AFAICT. It could be used for search results, and it could be shown as placeholder for, or below, the manual description in the interface.

This would, however, require engineering beyond what I can offer as a volunteer. It could also profit from the involvement of someone versed in linguistics.

Cheers,

Magnus

-- daniel

Am 09.02.2015 um 11:41 schrieb Magnus Manske:
> Manual descriptions are, in the vast majority of cases, a waste of volunteer
> time. Alternative:
> http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=265
>
> On Sun Feb 08 2015 at 17:37:42 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
> <mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> How does that help ? The point is exactly that there is no point to
> descriptions. Why iterate on a dog it will still be a mutt.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 8 February 2015 at 14:07, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il
> <mailto:amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
>
> I'd rather see it not as something terribly disappointing, but as an
> opportunity to find a way to fill item descriptions more efficiently.
>
> Basically, to find some cycles to resolve
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T64695
>
> בתאריך 8 בפבר 2015 10:33, ‏"Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
> <mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>> כתב:
>
> Hoi,
> I understand that item descriptions are going to be used in a mobile
> app. In my opinion that is seriously disappointing because it is not
> realistic to expect enough coverage in any language. Particularly in
> the small languages it will not be really useful.
>
> My question is: we have had automated descriptions for a long time.
> What is it that they makes that they are not used.?
>
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
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--
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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