I think the question is, should we have WDQ-like queries run (automatically?) on Wikidata list/category items? (yes, we should!)

On a separate note, the list vs. category issue is simply solved: On Wikidata, a list is the same as a category. On Wikipedia, this would be true if (and only if) all entries in the list also have pages in the category, that is, there are no red links in the list.

IMHO we could make "complete" (were possible) lists on Wikidata by just creating the missing items and add the statements putting them into the list/category; the fact that a list exists should make the items notable enough, even if they will stay "stub items" for a while.

To make things even more confusing: Lists based on qualifiers! ;-)
http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=178

Cheers,
Magnus


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Denny Vrandečić <vrandecic@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I am obviously bad at guessing what you mean, can you please explicate what you mean with "replicate that functionality on Wikidata"?

Sorry, I am too dense to understand it.

What do you want to happen, explicitly?

I go to http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6573995 - how should it be different from what it displays today?

Do you want the item pages to have the feature to directly embed query results, instead of having a one-click distance to the actual query page and its results?

Or is there more to it?




On Thu Mar 06 2014 at 3:10:44 PM, David Cuenca <dacuetu@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not saying that the results yielded by "Category:Books by Jean-Paul Sartre" or "Category:Books by J.R.R. Tolkien" are or should be the same as the result yielded by a corresponding Wikidata query, but the concepts they represent, they are the same. Ditto for lists.
(As a further clarification, I didn't mention anything about changing Wikipedia categories or Wikipedia lists either.)

My question was regarding the functionality of WD items associated with Wikipedia categories and Wikipedia lists.
Conceptually those items represent (or can represent) queries.
WDQ, the tool by Magnus, already can interpret certain statements as queries [1].
Would it make sense to replicate that functionality on Wikidata?

Cheers,
Micru


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Denny Vrandečić <vrandecic@gmail.com> wrote:
But that's simply not the case. The Category:Books by Jean-Paul Sartre [1] or Category:Books by J.R.R. Tolkien [2} neither are a complete list of books by those authors (e.g. Sartre's fictional books are missing, Tolkien's non-fictional *and* Middle earth books are missing), nor are they only including books by Tolkien (e.g. they also include templates and other categories, which are likely not written by Sartre or Tolkien).

If the plan is to change the way categories are used in Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis, I'd say this is a very different goal, but should be discussed on those wikis.

List-articles often contain much more love and care than a Wikidata query result will for a while. I don't think that replacing an article like the list of books by David Foster Wallace [3] the List of US Presidents [4] with a single simple query is a short-term goal.



On Thu Mar 06 2014 at 1:49:54 PM, David Cuenca <dacuetu@gmail.com> wrote:
The point I wanted to make (following your example), is that the Wikidata Query "All novels by Douglas Adams" is equivalent to the item "Category:Novels by Douglas Adams" [1]. In other cases there will be even 3 items representing the same information: the wd query, the category item, and a "list of..." item. So I'm just wondering if this complexity is really needed for structural/technical reasons.

Maybe there is an easier way instead of linking to the wd query with a "category's main query" property?

Cheers,
Micru

[1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8687492


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Lydia Pintscher <lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Cuenca <dacuetu@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to make you aware of this RFC started by Gerard:
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Define_lists_on_both_%22Wikimedia_lists%22_and_%22Wikimedia_categories%22
>
> It is interesting because in the end, what is the difference between a list,
> a category, and a query? Not much, really.
>
> I'm curious to know if the approach taken with queries will be the same as
> the WDQ
> http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=6573995
>
> Items like "List of..." or "Category:" would have some use, but the
> development notes don't state if this is the intended path
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Development/Queries
>
> Any thoughts about it?

I've been trying to understand the RfC 3 times now and still fail. So
I can't answer your questions unfortunately.

The short and simplified version of how complex queries will work:
* someone defines a query on a page in a special query namespace (eg
"everything that has author = Douglas Adams")
* the result of the query is a list of items matching the query
* the Wikipedias can include the result of the query and visualize it
in certain ways on a page. (eg the wikitext of the article "List of
works by Douglas Adams" would have a call to include the query result
from Wikidata)


Cheers
Lydia

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