Hi Rob,

sorry for the longer wait on this one.

2013/8/28 Rob Lanphier <robla@wikimedia.org>

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 AM, Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> This was already discussed here:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg69983.html>

Yes, it was discussed. I was traveling the week that thread broke out, and never fully caught up on that particular thread (only fully read it this morning), so my apologies.

That said, it didn't appear to me that we actually resolved anything there. Did I miss something?

No, this is correct. The question was not resolved. I just want to avoid to be blocking on resolving this question.

It would indeed be helpful to actually resolve the question in order not to keep hitting on it repeatedly, but I do not know how to have a decision on this topic in an effective time frame, which is why I didn't take the lead on resolving this.

> Scribunto and Babel are other extensions that have dependencies, and there
> are more of them. We are not setting a sole precedent here.

I'm not saying that, because we haven't really managed dependencies between internal libraries before that we can't do it now. However, I don't think your examples support your case that this is already standard practice.

Sorry, the examples have been sloppy (I should not trust my memory!). Translate extension depends on ULS, CodeEditor depends on WikiEditor, Semantic Result Formats depends on Semantic MediaWiki. My bad.

I'm trying to understand the breakup of the extensions, and in our continuing discussion, you've pointed me at varying bits of documentation that don't answer the questions that I have.

The breakup of extensions is mostly guided to avoid unnecessary dependencies, e.g. to avoid that because Extension:Maps depends on Extension:ParamProcessor and Extension:ParamProcessor on Extension:DataValues, suddenly have Extension:Maps a dependency on the implementation of the time value parser. This has been the major guiding principle in the way the extensions have been broken down. 

I'd like to understand what exactly is so terrible about the status quo that you all are blocked on your development.  If this refactoring is really so urgent, why can't you clearly and concisely state not only what you are doing, but *why* you are doing it.

That is actually simpler to answer: it is blocking the release of a number of extensions who depend on the DataValues extensions. We would like to perform the break up, reduce the number of components with that, and have a more stable separation in components before these extensions can see their releases. The former breakup had its deficiencies, after working with it for a year we have developed a better understanding of how it should be done, and we would like to fix that, by reducing the number of components and increasing cohesion.

Well, we can move forward with this specifically:


I would hope you can hold off on the other refactoring until there is at least one person on my team who can confidently explain what the role of each of the extensions you're proposing is. I was going to bite the bullet and just get my head around it myself, but I need to be realistic about the level of effort I can expend with this.

I would hope that we could do the whole DataValues refactoring first, and then have the step you describe for further work.

I would like to have this person to be assigned soonish, and also to get sufficient time for this task. And thank you for this offer, the outcome should be a greatly improved documentation of our components.

There are further refactorings that I want to see happen: I want the EntitySelector jQuery widget to be moved out of Wikibase, for example, and I will put effort into handling this better. I really didn't expect that this question would rise so many questions, and it is my mistake to not give more attention to this.



(Sorry for sending this mail on the last minute before the weekly call, and no, I do not expect you to have it read in time for it :) )

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