Magnus, That is very cool! I also noticed the same trend, which indeed does at first glance appear to be a male bias in the language wikis. However, drilling down into the actual data it's really not so bad. What you actually see is a strong bias from the ULAN for artists who have been active in the US for whatever reason (artworks in US museum, exhibition, or public art). The RKD has a similar strong bias for artists who have been active in the Northern & Southern Netherlands and adjoining countries (nl, fr + de). We should offset this by looking at other databases, and also looking at the same cross-wiki data for all biographies with occupation=artist. Jane On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Magnus Manske < magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: > http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=278 > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:48 AM Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I am compiling some stats regarding the work done on the Art & >> Feminism edit-a-thons for my local chapter and while checking the state of >> the wikis regarding female artists I noticed that there are huge local >> differences per language wiki regarding "who is notable". One of the things >> I love about Mix-and-Match is the way you can easily check the sitelinks >> per wiki. You can also download the data with autolist to see which >> biographies are popular across different languages. I noticed that in the >> case of women this seems to be way different than for men. Women artists >> are more likely to be notable in one or two languages only, possibly >> because they travel less, making their art known more locally than >> otherwise - who knows? >> >> In any case, here is something to chew on: >> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Women_vs_Men_per_external_db_using_… >> >> I wish we had more databases from more countries that only contain >> artists that we could load into Mix-and-Match! >> >> Jane >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki-research-l mailing list >> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l

Well here you get into a problem with data in the databases. Often the records for men are more fleshed out than for women. Here are two records in the RKD for male and female based on a US-based husband & wife duo never active in the Netherlands, but who were made popular (with articles on 4 or more language wikis) by a 2014 movie about them: https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/296853 https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/296851 The ULAN only has one record http://www.getty.edu/vow/ULANFullDisplay?find=&role=&nation=&su… One could argue that there is not enough in any of these records to make a Wikidata entry, let alone a Wikipedia article in any language. So just having the record in the ULAN or the RKDartists will not help any language-pedia. The English Wikipedia includes of course articles for both, though they are not sourced to these databases at all.

In comparison, here is a US male artist without any Wikipedia article, born the same year as Mrs. Keane, whose entry in the RKD is well fleshed out, because this person was active in Amsterdam https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/55977 On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Magnus Manske < magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: > Well, a "local bias" would push the total coverage in a certain > language, as evidences by high nl.wp coverage for RKD but not for ULAN. But > how would that affect the gender bias? No matter how popular RKDartists are > on a Wikipedia, unbiased coverage should always put them on the line in my > plots. However, only the almost-complete Wikipedias come near that line. > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:27 AM Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Magnus, >> That is very cool! I also noticed the same trend, which indeed does >> at first glance appear to be a male bias in the language wikis. However, >> drilling down into the actual data it's really not so bad. What you >> actually see is a strong bias from the ULAN for artists who have been >> active in the US for whatever reason (artworks in US museum, exhibition, or >> public art). The RKD has a similar strong bias for artists who have been >> active in the Northern & Southern Netherlands and adjoining countries (nl, >> fr + de). We should offset this by looking at other databases, and also >> looking at the same cross-wiki data for all biographies with >> occupation=artist. >> >> Jane >> >> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Magnus Manske < >> magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=278 >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:48 AM Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am compiling some stats regarding the work done on the Art & >>>> Feminism edit-a-thons for my local chapter and while checking the state of >>>> the wikis regarding female artists I noticed that there are huge local >>>> differences per language wiki regarding "who is notable". One of the things >>>> I love about Mix-and-Match is the way you can easily check the sitelinks >>>> per wiki. You can also download the data with autolist to see which >>>> biographies are popular across different languages. I noticed that in the >>>> case of women this seems to be way different than for men. Women artists >>>> are more likely to be notable in one or two languages only, possibly >>>> because they travel less, making their art known more locally than >>>> otherwise - who knows? >>>> >>>> In any case, here is something to chew on: >>>> >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Women_vs_Men_per_external_db_using_… >>>> >>>> I wish we had more databases from more countries that only contain >>>> artists that we could load into Mix-and-Match! >>>> >>>> Jane >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki-research-l mailing list >> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l

Exactly! However, I do think this example woman shows a Wikipedia gender bias towards men in that her husband's article has an image and hers doesn't On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Magnus Manske < magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:46 PM Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Well here you get into a problem with data in the databases. Often >> the records for men are more fleshed out than for women. >> >> Here are two records in the RKD for male and female based on a >> US-based husband & wife duo never active in the Netherlands, but who were >> made popular (with articles on 4 or more language wikis) by a 2014 movie >> about them: >> https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/296853 >> https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/296851 >> >> The ULAN only has one record >> >> http://www.getty.edu/vow/ULANFullDisplay?find=&role=&nation=&su… >> >> One could argue that there is not enough in any of these records to >> make a Wikidata entry, let alone a Wikipedia article in any language. So >> just having the record in the ULAN or the RKDartists will not help any >> language-pedia. The English Wikipedia includes of course articles for both, >> though they are not sourced to these databases at all. >> > > Which only shows that RKD/ULAN are not the basis for Wikipedia > articles. Your "example woman" has 13 references: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Keane > > But, the argument could be made that general coverage on the web is > biased towards men, and Wikipedia reflects that trend, if only for a lack > of sources. > > >> In comparison, here is a US male artist without any Wikipedia >> article, born the same year as Mrs. Keane, whose entry in the RKD is well >> fleshed out, because this person was active in Amsterdam >> https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/55977 >> >> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Magnus Manske < >> magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Well, a "local bias" would push the total coverage in a certain >>> language, as evidences by high nl.wp coverage for RKD but not for ULAN. But >>> how would that affect the gender bias? No matter how popular RKDartists are >>> on a Wikipedia, unbiased coverage should always put them on the line in my >>> plots. However, only the almost-complete Wikipedias come near that line. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:27 AM Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Magnus, >>>> That is very cool! I also noticed the same trend, which indeed does >>>> at first glance appear to be a male bias in the language wikis. However, >>>> drilling down into the actual data it's really not so bad. What you >>>> actually see is a strong bias from the ULAN for artists who have been >>>> active in the US for whatever reason (artworks in US museum, exhibition, or >>>> public art). The RKD has a similar strong bias for artists who have been >>>> active in the Northern & Southern Netherlands and adjoining countries (nl, >>>> fr + de). We should offset this by looking at other databases, and also >>>> looking at the same cross-wiki data for all biographies with >>>> occupation=artist. >>>> >>>> Jane >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Magnus Manske < >>>> magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=278 >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:48 AM Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am compiling some stats regarding the work done on the Art & >>>>>> Feminism edit-a-thons for my local chapter and while checking the state of >>>>>> the wikis regarding female artists I noticed that there are huge local >>>>>> differences per language wiki regarding "who is notable". One of the things >>>>>> I love about Mix-and-Match is the way you can easily check the sitelinks >>>>>> per wiki. You can also download the data with autolist to see which >>>>>> biographies are popular across different languages. I noticed that in the >>>>>> case of women this seems to be way different than for men. Women artists >>>>>> are more likely to be notable in one or two languages only, possibly >>>>>> because they travel less, making their art known more locally than >>>>>> otherwise - who knows? >>>>>> >>>>>> In any case, here is something to chew on: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Women_vs_Men_per_external_db_using_… >>>>>> >>>>>> I wish we had more databases from more countries that only >>>>>> contain artists that we could load into Mix-and-Match! >>>>>> >>>>>> Jane >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>>>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki-research-l mailing list >> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l