Thank you Lucie, for taking the effort to answer in detail. As I said, I am
afraid I cannot really understand your paper as I come from the humanities.
And of course, a study about reader expectations was not part of your paper
and research. For me personally, I would start there, and I know that
Wikipedia research had always more attention for contributors than for
readers.
You are opening a new issue actually: what is useful for readers, that is
one thing. The other thing is: does an ArticlePlaceholder help an editor to
improve an article. I would suppose that it is best to start the article on
your own, but that may depend on the topic of the article.
I do speak Esperanto, by chance. :-)
Kind regards,
Ziko
Lucie-Aimée Kaffee <kaffee(a)soton.ac.uk> schrieb am Sa. 7. Apr. 2018 um
16:24:
Hello Ziko,
Thanks for your mail! I responded inline below.
On 6 April 2018 at 03:04, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
A most interesting thread, as it touches the topic from different
angles. I
agree that it needs actually a study among
readers about their
preferences.
As I mentioned to Leila, the ESWC paper
does work with editors, but I
agree, more thought and work should be done on actual Wikipedia readers.
> Personally, I may have some doubt
whether it improves an
ArticlePlaceholder
> to create sentences from the data (as they did in the geographical
> "articles" created by bots). The data itself is most suitable for
> databases, to be looked up in a table. Reading "Berlin has 3,500,000
> million inhabitants" is not really an improvement compared to "Berlin /
> inhabitants: 3,500,000".
> Sentences have the most power when
they combine information to knowledge,
> like in "Berlin's population, currently 3,500,000, has been much
different
> during the Cold War because of the declining attractiveness for
> businesses".
> In general, I would advise against
one-sentence-summaries; a reader might
> be disappointed when he comes via Google to a website and then only finds
> one sentence.
Just to clarify: the summaries do generate information from multiple
triples. Basically means, the sentences are a bit more complex than just
verbalizing one triple per sentence. However, even with a neural network,
there is a limit to how much context we can produce for each sentence.
Therefore, we integrated the question of how editors work with the data, as
we see it an important aspect of the workflow. Basically,
ArticlePlaceholder can be a better option than no information at all, but
still the ideal would be an actual editor picking up a topic and writing
and maintaining a full article.
Furthermore, in our current (theoretical) design we still keep all the
information available from Wikidata in forms of triples. Therefore, we
don't replace any information, we just add a sentence that's more reader
friendly and gives a first overview, before looking at pure triples.
> (I hope I understood the question
well; I cannot follow the math in your
> article. Is there anywhere an example of your "summaries" to read?)
The summaries are learned from the first
sentence of Wikipedia, therefore
they contain the same kind of structure and content. If you're able to read
Arabic or Esperanto, generated sentences can be found here:
https://github.com/pvougiou/Mind-the-Language-Gap/tree/master/Results/Our%2…
Cheers,
Lucie
> 2018-04-05 22:50 GMT+02:00 Leila Zia
<leila(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:
> > Hi Lucie-Aimée,
>
> > Nice to see work in this
direction is progressing. Some comments
in-line.
>
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 7:49
AM, Lucie-Aimée Kaffee <kaffee(a)soton.ac.uk
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Therefore, we
worked on producing sentences from the information on
> > > Wikidata in the given language. We trained a neural network model,
the
> > > details can be found in the preprint of the NAACL paper here:
> > >
https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.07116
>
> > It would be good to do
human (both readers and editors, and perhaps
> > both sets) evaluations for this research, too, to better understand
> > how well the model is doing from the perspective of the experienced
> > editors in some of the smaller languages as well as their readers. (I
> > acknowledge that finding experienced editors when you go to small
> > languages can become hard.)
>
> > > Furthermore, we would
love to hear your input: Do you believe, one
> > sentence
> > > summaries are enough, can we serve the communities needs better with
> more
> > > than one sentence?
>
> > This is a hard question to
answer. :) The answer may rely on many
> > factors including the language you want to implement such a system in
> > and the expectation the users of the language have in terms of online
> > content available to them in their language.
>
> > > Is this still true if
longer abstracts would be of lower
> > > text quality?
>
> > same as above. You are
signing yourself up for more experiments. ;)
>
> > I would be interested to
know:
> > * What is the perception of the readers of a given language about
> > Wikipedia if a lot of articles that they go to in their language have
> > one sentence (to a good extent accurate), a few sentences but with
> > some errors, more sentences with more errors, versus not finding the
> > article they're interested in at all?
> > * Related to the above: what is the error threshold beyond which the
> > brand perceptions will turn negative (to be defined: may be by
> > measuring if the user returns in the coming week or month.)? This may
> > well be different in different languages and cultures.
> > * Depending on the result of the above, we may want to look at
> > offering the user the option to access that information, but outside
> > of Wikipedia, or inside Wikipedia but very clearly labeled as Machine
> > Generated as you do to some extent in these projects.
>
> > > What other interesting
use cases for such a technology in the
> > > Wikimedia world can you imagine?
>
> > The technology itself can
have a variety of use-cases, including
> > providing captions or summaries of photos even without layers of image
> > processing applied to them.
>
> > Best,
> > Leila
>
> > > [1]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticlePlaceholder and
> > >
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Generating_Article_
> > Placeholders_from_Wikidata_for_Wikipedia_-_Increasing_
> > Access_to_Free_and_Open_Knowledge.pdf
> > > [2]
> > >
https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/413433/1/Open_Sym_Short_Paper_
> > Wikidata_Multilingual.pdf
> >
> > > --
> > > Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> > > Web and Internet Science Group
> > > School of Electronics and Computer Science
> > > University of Southampton
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > >
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
> >
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--
Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
Web and Internet Science Group
School of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
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