Re: [Wiki-research-l] Preexsiting Researchers on Metrics for Users?

Pine, that's a good point. The entire purpose of my research is to try to propose a new better metric for editors, because the ones we have at the moment are incomplete as you pointed out. The reason I need these imperfect ones is to calibrate my model against the best metrics we have at the moment. This economic model tries to capture hidden capabilities. The intuition is that edits to articles that are not less heavily edited by others show that you are doing good background reading, or have some obscure knowledge. You know, it's only the Swiss that make Swiss watches, but every country and their mother can export Apples. Similarly, in this case I would say you're edits to Obama's page are less import than your edits to "Non-euclidean geometry". How much should the number of other editors on the articles you edit count? Well I "calibrate" that variable such that my model most closely correlates with the best available metrics we have so far. Side note: It is still very network heavy to compute labour-hours over the network via API. Did not even manage 600 users in 8 hours. So its germane to use the SQL replicas. I have been trying to do this over an ssh tunnel, locally or on wmflabs directly. Maximilian Klein Wikipedian in Residence, OCLC +17074787023 ________________________________ From: wiki-research-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org &lt;wiki-research-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; on behalf of Aaron Halfaker &lt;aaron.halfaker(a)gmail.com&gt; Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 8:24 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Preexsiting Researchers on Metrics for Users? Agreed. This is a limitation. However, if you're doing other work while writing the article or making intermittent saves as you go, then it will be captured. Ethnographic work suggests that what you describe is uncommon, but present. for this reason and others, it's important to see this "labor hours" estimate as a lower bound. There's a lot of off-wiki work that isn't accounted for in any candidate measures using Wikipedia data. For example, you'd have the exact same issue with edit counts and content persistence. On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 PM, ENWP Pine <deyntestiss@hotmail.com<mailto:deyntestiss@hotmail.com>> wrote: However, measuring productivity by the difference of the times of first and last edits won't do much for those of us who work on pages for hours before pressing the save button and only save once. (: It also doesn't measure time spent on private wikis or discussions on email and IRC, which also are not countable as productivity if you look only at public edit counts and logged actions. I'm assuming that login and logout times on all wikis are not available for research use. If they were there would be privacy issues although mitigation is possible. Pine ________________________________ From: aaron.halfaker@gmail.com<mailto:aaron.halfaker@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:15:36 -0600 To: wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Preexsiting Researchers on Metrics for Users? I talked to Max on IRC, but I'm pointing here for the lurkers :) I think that measuring labor hours via edit sessions is a great idea and I have python library to help extract sessions from edit histories. See https://bitbucket.org/halfak/mediawiki-utilities. Assuming that you have a list of a user's revisions from the API, using the session extractor to build a set of session start and end timestamps for a user would look like this: ---------------------------- from mwutil.lib import sessions # Get your revisions ordered by timestamp # revisions = <some API call result> events = (rev['user'], rev['timestamp'], rev) for rev in revisions for user, session in sessions.sessions(events): # write out a TSV file print "\t".join( str(v) for v in [user, len(session), session[0]['timestamp'], session[-1]['timestamp'] ) --------------------------- On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Klein,Max <kleinm@oclc.org<mailto:kleinm@oclc.org>> wrote: Thanks Nemo, I'll re-read that discussion. I think that conversation is where I became tentative of using bytes or edit counts. Aaron, in my own search I also noticed you wrote with Geiger. About counting edit hour and edit sessions. [1] Calculating content persistence is a bit too heavyweight for me right now since I am trying to submit to ACM Web Science in 2 weeks (hose CFP was just on this list). The technique looks great though, and I would like to help support making a WMFlabs tool that can return this measure. It seems like I could calculate approximate edit-hours from just looking at Special:Contributions timestamps. Is that correct? Would you suggest this route? [1] http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/Using_Edit_Sessions_to_Mea… Maximilian Klein Wikipedian in Residence, OCLC +17074787023 ________________________________ From: wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> <wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org>> on behalf of Aaron Halfaker <aaron.halfaker@gmail.com<mailto:aaron.halfaker@gmail.com>> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 7:12 AM To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Preexsiting Researchers on Metrics for Users? Hey Max, There's a class of metrics that might be relevant to your purposes. I refer to them as "content persistence" metrics and wrote up some docs about how they work including an example. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Content_persistence. I gathered a list of papers below to provide a starting point. I've included links to open access versions where I could. These metrics are a little bit painful to compute due to the computational complexity of diffs, but I have some hardware to throw at the problem and another project that's bringing me in this direction, so I'd be interested in collaborating. Priedhorsky, Reid, et al. "Creating, destroying, and restoring value in Wikipedia." Proceedings of the 2007 international ACM conference on Supporting group work. ACM, 2007. http://reidster.net/pubs/group282-priedhorsky.pdf: * Describes "Persistent word views" which is a measure of value added per editor. (IMO, value actualized) B. Thomas Adler, Krishnendu Chatterjee, Luca de Alfaro, Marco Faella, Ian Pye, and Vishwanath Raman. 2008. Assigning trust to Wikipedia content. In Proceedings of the 4th International Symposium on Wikis (WikiSym '08). ACM, New York, NY, USA, , Article 26 , 12 pages. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.141.2047&rep=r… * Describes a complex strategy for assigning trustworthiness to content based on implicit review. See http://wikitrust.soe.ucsc.edu/ Halfaker, A., Kittur, A., Kraut, R., & Riedl, J. (2009, October). A jury of your peers: quality, experience and ownership in Wikipedia. In Proceedings of the 5th International Symposium on Wikis and Open Collaboration (p. 15). ACM. http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/A_Jury_of_Your_Peers/halfa… * Describes the use of "Persistent word revisions per word" as a measure of article contribution quality. Halfaker, A., Kittur, A., & Riedl, J. (2011, October). Don't bite the newbies: how reverts affect the quantity and quality of Wikipedia work. In Proceedings of the 7th International Symposium on Wikis and Open Collaboration (pp. 163-172). ACM. http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/Don't_Bite_the_Newbies… * Describes the use of raw "Persistent work revisions" as a measure of editor productivity * Looking back on the study, I think I'd rather use log(# of revisions a word persists) * words. -Aaron On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 1:48 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com<mailto:nemowiki@gmail.com>> wrote: Sort of related, an ongoing education@ discussion "student evaluation criteria". http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.education/854 Nemo _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l