On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:09 AM, Tim
> Why? If a chapter can pay a hosting company for their servi-
> ces with a donation, they should be able to pay WMDE for
> their services as well. There is no need to "move a donation
> to another jurisdiction".
As soon as there is cash flow from one chapter to another, you are
affectively moving donations from a jurisdiction to another.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 19:04, Aryeh Gregor<Simetrical+wikilist(a)gmail.com> wrote:
My understanding (IANAL anywhere, especially not Europe) is that they
can let WM-DE host and manage the servers, but they might not be able
to just give them to WM-DE. Charities can't necessarily give away
assets to non-charities, otherwise there would be an obvious loophole
in the whole "not for profit" idea (accept donation, give away to
for-profit corporation you own, pocket as profit).
WM DE is a non-profit, so the problem is not there. Or I didn't
understand your statement.
The question has a lot to do with what we do.
As you point out, hardware is an asset, and it is harder to file as
"mission oriented" to start with, wherever it is located.
On top of that, some countries have restrictions inherent to their
non-profit legal frame. Regardless of the donor's point of view,
which, with good PR, can always be turned around to show that
supporting the German tolserver is within the mission, the money
simply cannot go to "another organisation", because it implies legal
ties or afiliations that are hard to translate into "mission oriented"
projects. Moving cash around in the non-profit world is really
As far as i know, for example, most of the donations that Wikimedia PL
receives come with strings attached, and Wikimedia PL can only spend
that money _within Poland_. None of their doing, it's the law, you
can't do anything about it. It goes with their non-profit status. In
France, for example, it would take a lot of explaining to the tax
office to say why we're "funding" Wikimedia Deutschland, but it would
all depend on the amount (and the percentage of the chapter's
financial means it represents).
My take is that as chapters grow, it will be easier to fund the German
toolserver as the amounts needed will be smaller for each chapter
(relatively) and can be more easily explained to the national tax
So we'd have a lot of servers owned by a lot of
in different countries. If you need new hardware for this server you
have to get the money from this person, for this server you need this
person. You get a dozen different support contracts and warranties
instead of one per vendor/manufacturer. I don't deal with the
hardware at all, but it looks like enough of a pain for the admins to
just have to deal with servers owned by one or two groups.
So it would be nice if one organization could own all the servers and
manage all the support contracts. Like Wikimedia Deutschland. But
apparently that's not easy to do, either legally or politically.
Spot on, this is the headache we're facing. Too many cooks spoil the
broth. Efficiency is reduced if you have to go to X for one machine,
and Z for the next one.
(who knows nothing about toolservers, but a little more about chapters
and chapters' finances ;-))
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