Thank you, more than I can say.
-Sumana
On 05/02/2013 11:20 AM, Aaron Halfaker wrote:
Hey folks,
I usually steer clear of these sort of battles, but it looks like it's time
to state the obvious: *we need to work together better*.
We're wiki people, damn it. We're the people[1] who figured out how to
build an encyclopedia through (effectively) an anonymous system when those
with less imagination were skeptical what it could even work at all. Now,
we're fighting against ourselves about technology to support our wiki work
and it is only wasting time, energy and social capitol.
DaB, I don't follow toolserver-l as well as I should. What can I do to
help make sure that the Toolserver cluster is well supplied *at least* until
labs meets 99.9% of tool developers needs. Do I need to lobby the WMF?
WMDE?
Ryan, I'm sure it was not out of some sort of malicious intent, but a large
number of toolserver users and especially DaB are getting a raw deal. At
some point, someone seems to have suggested that WMF Labs ought to replace
the Toolserver. This is painful because, while Labs is not yet ready for
us, the Toolserver is already being phased out. It's not fair to just say,
"Come on over to Labs and help us." I don't see how jumping ship before
the next one shows up is a good idea. The majority of us are doing our
work as volunteers. We can't just manifest extra maintainer hours in order
to spend developer time on Labs. We're already spending more time dealing
with Toolserver issues than we normally would.
Finally, the Toolserver isn't just a resource. It's our community. A
community is far more valuable than technology. If we don't preserve our
community, we'll all lose. So please, when we're fighting each other, our
first thought should be how to not need to fight anymore.
So here we are. Today was wasted arguing about who was wronged. How do we
work together better tomorrow?
-Aaron
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:05 AM, DaB. <WP(a)daniel.baur4.info> wrote:
Hello,
At Thursday 02 May 2013 15:29:07 DaB. wrote:
I'm confused. I thought we were all here to
support the readers, editors,
researchers and developers of the Wikimedia projects? If the toolserver
is
empty because Labs is accomplishing the goal,
isn't that a good thing?
I've asked this before: why not help with Labs, rather than fighting
everyone? Let's work as a team
do not forget who started the fighting: The WMF. The WMF announced to WMDE
that
the database-replication is going to end in the near future, what caused
that
WMDE stopped to support the Toolserver properly. The very goal with this
was
to let (Tool-)Labs be the only alternative.
A fair approach would have been to create Labs as an alternative to the
Toolserver, letting the users (new and old) decide which system they want
to
use. Toolserver and Labs could have existed in coexistence, exchanging
knowledge, and maybe specially in different fields after a while. But that
was
not what happened. Instead the WMF decided because the are bigger, have
more
money, servers and personal, and control the replication-data, that they
just
could put the toolserver to an end – what didn't work as well as expected.
And
now we are sitting here with confused tool-authors, annoyed tool-users and
a
angry root.
I didn't start the fight and I am not interested in teaming-up with a party
which was not interested to build a team in the very beginning when it
counted. Switching or helping with Labs would signal that I'm fine with all
what the WMF did – and I'm not.
Sincerely,
DaB.
--
Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 0x2d3ee2d42b255885
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