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Hello all!
We have again the discussion about BS (beautifulsoup) and externals.
Just a thought about that; might it be possible that we have a philosophy mismatch between win (xqt, ...) and linux (me, ...) users? Might it be possible that win users want to have "everything" included whereas linux useres are used to have independent packages with dependencies between them?
If this is the problem, what about having averything included e.g. in the nightly release? I do have no idea about how nightly works and whether this is already the case? This release would then be >100MB but as used from python "with batteries included".
Thanks for your replies! Greetings DrTrigon
On 11 September 2013 19:17, Dr. Trigon dr.trigon@surfeu.ch wrote:
Just a thought about that; might it be possible that we have a philosophy mismatch between win (xqt, ...) and linux (me, ...) users? Might it be possible that win users want to have "everything" included whereas linux useres are used to have independent packages with dependencies between them?
If this is the problem, what about having averything included e.g. in
the nightly release? I do have no idea about how nightly works and whether this is already the case? This release would then be >100MB but as used from python "with batteries included".
No. It's a mismatch between 'have everything needed for basic functionality in one package' versus 'it's OK if something has to be downloaded later'. Your packaging system is very useful for packages that are only needed for a few scripts, but I really don't understand why you so desperately want BeautifulSoup to *not* be included by default. It's needed for basic usage of bots and it's only 80KB (compared to almost 20M for the rest of the framework).
Merlijn
----- Original Nachricht ---- Von: Merlijn van Deen valhallasw@arctus.nl An: Pywikipedia discussion list pywikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Datum: 11.09.2013 20:11 Betreff: Re: [Pywikipedia-l] BS and externals (again ;)
On 11 September 2013 19:17, Dr. Trigon dr.trigon@surfeu.ch wrote:
Just a thought about that; might it be possible that we have a philosophy mismatch between win (xqt, ...) and linux (me, ...) users? Might it be possible that win users want to have "everything" included whereas linux useres are used to have independent packages with dependencies between them?
If this is the problem, what about having averything included e.g. in
the nightly release? I do have no idea about how nightly works and whether this is already the case? This release would then be >100MB but as used from python "with batteries included".
No. It's a mismatch between 'have everything needed for basic functionality in one package' versus 'it's OK if something has to be downloaded later'. Your packaging system is very useful for packages that are only needed for a few scripts, but I really don't understand why you so desperately want BeautifulSoup to *not* be included by default. It's needed for basic usage of bots and it's only 80KB (compared to almost 20M for the rest of the framework).
Merlijn
+1 This is exactly my opinion.
xqt
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Simple reason: WHY? It is NOT NEEDED at all!!!
You need an internet connection to get pywikibot anyway, so where is the problem? You also need an internet connection to use pywikibot, so again...
But as explained it might cause problems, e.g. if somebody comes to the idea to change the code there instead of upstream in BS... (as we already encountered in the past) So we want to blow up our repo with unneeded redundant code... for what use? (ok "blow up" might be too hard for 80KB... ;)
And I always hear just OPPINIONS but NO ARGUMENTS (the ones I heard were solved quite some time ago) - I did not invent this becuase of my oppinion BUT beacuse I had to solve a problem... fine - if you want to run into the same problem first and then come back crying - feel free to do so... but do not count on my assistance...
I wanted to make OUR code and bot better and not clumpsy, heavy and full of waste... but do whatever you want, since I got my repo on labs now - I can also switch back to my old system and stop commiting code upstream, if I need to... I will have to decide this later...
Of course there will always be a missmatch of oppinions - but ARGUMENTS are a lot more important. If you want to just ignore them and repeat the same (noteably wrong statements like "needs patch.exe" or "needs admin rights") over and over again and also ignore the effort someone is putting into it to sort the problem out... feel free to continue doing so, but I can invest my time into more useful things.
Have a nice day! DrTrigon
On 11.09.2013 20:11, Merlijn van Deen wrote:
On 11 September 2013 19:17, Dr. Trigon <dr.trigon@surfeu.ch mailto:dr.trigon@surfeu.ch> wrote:
Just a thought about that; might it be possible that we have a philosophy mismatch between win (xqt, ...) and linux (me, ...) users? Might it be possible that win users want to have "everything" included whereas linux useres are used to have independent packages with dependencies between them?
If this is the problem, what about having averything included e.g. in the nightly release? I do have no idea about how nightly works and whether this is already the case? This release would then be
100MB but as used from python "with batteries included".
No. It's a mismatch between 'have everything needed for basic functionality in one package' versus 'it's OK if something has to be downloaded later'. Your packaging system is very useful for packages that are only needed for a few scripts, but I really don't understand why you so desperately want BeautifulSoup to *not* be included by default. It's needed for basic usage of bots and it's only 80KB (compared to almost 20M for the rest of the framework).
Merlijn
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