Dear all,

Sorry for jumping into this very interesting discussion rather late. Also, I regret not having been able to come to yesterday's net politics bear. Although I agree with Jens that zero-rated services are incompatible with net neutrality it seems that this discussion is indeed over. :-(

This is why I think we should focus on how to communicate those two positions (pro Wikipedia Zero + pro net neutrality) in the framework of Brussels advocacy. It seems that Google, Facebook and the like are doing this quite successfully (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/07/15/why-google-facebook-the-internet-giants-are-arguing-for-net-neutrality) and it might even be that many decision makers even won't care too much about an exception to net neutrality for Wikipedia or other useful services. After all:

- It does give access to less connected countries/societies to some parts of the Internet;
- It can increase online participation; and
- It can foster knowledge sharing among the people concerned.

I guess the bottom line could be that net neutrality is no ideology (=zero-rating is okay), but should protect consumers and content providers from having to pay ISPs in order to be accessible at all or at an acceptable speed (=bad for Wikimedia and other content providers).

In terms of advocacy it's a slippery slope and if I could, I would have advised to EITHER promote Wikipedia Zero OR defend net neutrality.

Any thoughts welcome.

Jan



Am 10.08.2014 um 18:32 schrieb Jens Best:
The discussion seems to be over:

According to the press Patricio Lorente, member of the Foundation's board, said:

"Access to information is a basic human right. If net neutrality is hurting a human right, we have to rethink net neutrality."

Haven't heard such a single-sided, unbalanced and self-righteous statment for a while.

So, people standing for net neutrality are now became enemies of basic human rights in the understanding of the foundation. - Well, if this low level of discussion is reached, I guess it doesn't make sense to discuss the subject with the foundation at all.

Byebye

Jens






2014-08-09 13:09 GMT+02:00 Stevie Benton <stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk>:
Hello everyone. I don't actually have a solution, although I am thinking about it a lot. But for anyone who is in doubt about the potential difficulties that net neutrality faces because of Wikipedia Zero, I recommend they take a look at this blog. It is written from what I consider the "critical friend" perspective and articulates the arguments of Jens and others very clearly. 


It also reflects my own view pretty well. I hope we can have a calm and reasoned discussion about this issue this evening at the net politics beer.

Thanks and regards,

Stevie


On 5 August 2014 07:08, Juergen Fenn <schneeschmelze@googlemail.com> wrote:
2014-08-05 2:54 GMT+02:00 Lila Tretikov <lila@wikimedia.org>:
> We tend to go out pontificating on these lists. What would be helpful is
> solutioning. For net neutrality, how would you reconcile the need for free
> public access to information with the ideals of net neutrality? This is the
> library analogy. We believe libraries should exist in this new digital
> world. Do you advise that they cannot? And if they can, how should we
> articulate this better?
>
> Go ahead and take a stab at it.

The solution probably is to go and partner with the libraries instead
of the ISPs. Leave it to the libraries which ISP they choose. It is up
to the libraries to provide access to resources for their users. They
select the resources they provide and they mind the technical side
behind it all. This is not the WMF's business. You only run the WP
website and care about the community.

Regards,
Jürgen.

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