Me again.

All the talks with the Commission where really open and sometimes frank, so you will understand that I cannot share everything on this mailing list. Also, not all the questions several of you have put together [1] could be answered, but I made sure to include them in the conversation and explained that we have a community that is keen on working on this and has some question. Thich does leave a lasting impression.

Here are some answers I can give:

*How can we help?
Everyone is worried about producing a piece of legislation that would gather enough support to actually pass. In this line of thought, I believe that traditionally conservative countries (see who is red on the FoP map) might pose an obstacle. Getting some national (even if limited or unofficial) support would be very reassuring for everyone working on this.
A major issue is to square the circle, that is to assure legislation is flexible and provides legal certainty at the same time.

*Timeline of the drafting?
6-18 months. Realistic to expect a text before summer.

*Who exactly is drafting it? (names, departments)
Lead is with DG Connect Unit Copyright. Horizontal integration (as it is a versatile issue) is the task of VP Ansip's cabinet.

*When are the next public hearings
in EP and how are they organised?
They're still dealing with analysing the consultation and writing the text. Perhaps no further public consultations until reform text published. Maybe on fringe issues only.
Still unclear, as it might even be split into a Directive and a Regulation. This tactical decision will determine whether we're writing something from scratch or just updating an old piece of law-making. Sure to be included is at least some harmonisation on exceptions and topics like "user-generated content". Fuzzy on details and scope.

*Checking their preferences on harmonisation?
Would love to, but afraid of Member States blocking it.

*Is there a chance to touch neighbouring rights like database rights and sui generis heritage laws?
*Do you agree that any copyright must be rebalanced in the citizens/people/users/public favour?
If it is just an update of the 2001 Directive - no. If it is a major overhaul of the copyright regime in general - yes. There seems to be strong political willingness to do the latter, but it will depend if the Member States are willing to go along with it.

*Is public domain on the radar?
No. Wikimedia and Communia are currently the only two organisations talking about PD or the commons on the EU level. Communia has no paid time in Brussels.

* Where do you get most opposition from
Strictly Dimi answering here: Publishers, France, Italy

* Any unexpected supporters?
Strictly Dimi answering here: Visual artists (photographers) could be on our side.

Is there a chance to establish a "principle of the most favourable copyright law"
Currently not on radar. Focus on harmonisation/trans-border access to content.

Hope this is useful and interesting!



2014-11-14 9:07 GMT+01:00 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov <>:
Ah, yes! I call these "antiquity laws". I am thinking of them, but if the EU legislates on copyright (i.e. a new Information Society Directive or a Copyright Regulation) I don't think there's a way of axing them, since it would always be an exception to copyright and not touching upon other legal protections.

If there was a EU Directive or Regulation explicitly saying that it is legal to take pictures of buildlings permanently located ina public space in general, then this would beat national legislation (as EU law takes precedence over national law). I am doubtful we can solve this one now, but it is on my radar.


2014-11-13 11:51 GMT+01:00 Lodewijk <>:

Just as a sidenote, dont forget that our italian and greek (!) friends also have this non- copyright law that requires govt permission to publish photos of old stuff. Might impact wording.

On Nov 13, 2014 9:06 AM, "Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov" <> wrote:
Hi again,

after the first round of talks passed, here's some interim notes and thoughts I've had so far:

1. The Commission is rather willing to talk openly about PDGov and FoP

2. On PDGov it is not sure whether it can be included in a Directive (which is aimed at member states). More likely if it is a regulation. If it is a non-legislative took, it is clear that it must be something bigger than the current re-use decision, which isn't really implemented and doesn't secure the upstream content to be free (i.e. bought content must be procured to be under a free license)

3. The standard initial reaction to exceptions remains NC. We must put some effort to remedy that and always (!) explain why NC doesn't work. I am always giving out the relevant brochure.

4. We must figure out how much money Belgian, French and Italian collecting societies make by licensing postcards of buildings, if any at all. If it is astonishingly low, we'd have an even better case.

5. What makes people in Brussels more weary in general is that things tend to get blocked by the member states. Looking at FoP, it would be good to get into position to lobby especially Belgium, France and Italy.

6. Anyone knows the history of FoP and what the historical arguments for its introduction were? I was asked about it directly already. I found some Bavarian law from 1840 as the first example, I assume it was about giving painters the freedom to pain public squares...

I would expect a legislative text before summer and some time spend on figuring out how the two relevant Commissioners will interact.


2014-11-07 16:29 GMT+01:00 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov <>:

2014-11-07 16:20 GMT+01:00 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov <>:
Hi again,

since we're trying to be the most transparent thing out there let's give it a shot without password protection. I mean, the question we want to ask aren't a secret. Maybe some of the answers will be, but we can deal with that when we get there.

I set up an etherpad with some notes. Feel free to add/edit/remove questions/comments and of course re-shuffle the order. It is hard to preview how a conversation will go, but it helps having a pool of good ideas and spot on questions in your arsenal.

Thanks for participating!


2014-11-07 9:59 GMT+01:00 Jens Best <>:
etherpad would be great. doesn't offer pw-protection, but then again, collecting questions there isn't really much more public then doing it here on this mailinglist.


2014-11-07 9:55 GMT+01:00 L.Gelauff <>:

if you have already a list of questions/topics, it would be easier to spot gaps. Maybe start an etherpad or something (assuming you want it nonpublic)?


On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov <> wrote:
Hi all,

next week I am having three meetings in the European Commission lined up: copyright unit, counterfeiting&piracy unit and the cabinet of Jean-Claude Juncker. The main reason I was scheduled is our position paper on EU copyright reform, which will, presumably, also be the main focus of the conversation.

I want to ask this group if there are any specific questions you'd like me to ask? Any concrete examples or issues you'd like raised? Of course, I can't promise I'll get the chance to ask everything, but I can try. Also, chances are that someone here has much better questions than me :)


Advocacy_Advisors mailing list

Advocacy_Advisors mailing list

Jens Best
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. 
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

Advocacy_Advisors mailing list

Advocacy_Advisors mailing list

Advocacy_Advisors mailing list