Hi,
Changed the subject to make this a separate thread, as I like some opinions.
On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 06:45, Amir Sarabadani ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 13:17, Andre Koopal andre@molens.org wrote:
Hi Amir,
Thanks indeed for the upgrade, something I also think that was highly needed from a security perspective, so a good thing.
One thing I did notice with my list being migrated is that we had some lists of non-members being able to post and also some blocked users. I don't find them back in the settings under message acceptance, but I find them in the users section under non members. I find this a bit strange. First of all you really need to go into the user itself before you see if it is a user you allow as non-member, or that it is a user marked to automatically discard. Secondly due to that when an account is created on that e-mail, you see the lists you are a non-member of. You fortunately can't see why you are a non-member, but it seems a small data-leak to me.
The non-member option in mailman3 is a bit weird. I agree. Non-member can also mean "accept emails from these address right away" so it's not negative meaning all the time but as you said, I agree.
It can be positive or negative indeed, But it is still strange, that you can see that you are a non-member, in principle it is of no use, as you can't change anything on it, and I think these are settings for the the admins/moderators of the lists with no need for the users to see it.
Will the old fields to filter users under settings/message acceptance still work, or will those users automatically converted to non-members? As an admin that will be difficult to manage, and it would be at least needed to be able to filter on the set action so you can see what is what. Also I don't think the interface should show you the lists you are a non-member of.
Have you tried turning them back to the setting? I haven't tried it yet and it might work. For the issues, you can file a bug in phabricator/upstream. I personally don't see it as a big deal.
I quickly tried to put one e-mail address in the 'Accept these non-members' section, and it wasn't converted to a non-member so it seems the lists there work as well. Didn't completely test if it works but I assume it will, as otherwise there would be more complaints.
Don't mind creating phabricator tickets but I would like to hear a bit more options, is it ok the old settings with lists with fields have been converted to non-members, or would it have been better to just have them in the lists in a text field only, where you have an overview. Any more opinions?
I also would like a bit more input if others indeed think it is wrong that you can see the lists where you are non-member off.
At least for the filter option, I already created T282325.
Regards,
André Koopal
Il 08/05/21 23:58, Andre Koopal ha scritto:
no need for the users to see it.
I don't think "no need" is an accurate description. There is need from the user's perspective, which you don't agree with.
There are at least two major practical reasons the user may want to know this: 1) to know whether they're supposed to write to a list and with what address (I regularly see people forget which email address of theirs is whitelisted in a list); 2) to understand what's going on with their emails, and possibly do something about it (this is more useful if the emails are set to be discarded).
Moreover, the email address, or any identifier for the user, is arguably personal information that the person has the right to ask at least in some occasions. This does not need that you need to throw the information into their faces, but I can see why the developers thought it was a reasonable thing to do. (If someone asks to remove any trace of their email address from your mailman installation, you can simply remove their [pseudo]memberships. Banning abusive users would presumably fall under the class of "legitimate interests" to keep a non-member.)
Federico
Hi,
On 5/8/21 1:58 PM, Andre Koopal wrote:
On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 06:45, Amir Sarabadani <ladsgroup@gmail.com mailto:ladsgroup@gmail.com> wrote: The non-member option in mailman3 is a bit weird. I agree. Non-member can also mean "accept emails from these address right away" so it's not negative meaning all the time but as you said, I agree.
It can be positive or negative indeed, But it is still strange, that you can see that you are a non-member, in principle it is of no use, as you can't change anything on it, and I think these are settings for the the admins/moderators of the lists with no need for the users to see it.
I agree that it's weird (not necessarily *wrong*, but weird). There's an upstream ticket[1] to remove this listing, and it seems like the developers would accept a patch if someone wrote one.
I quickly tried to put one e-mail address in the 'Accept these non-members' section, and it wasn't converted to a non-member so it seems the lists there work as well. Didn't completely test if it works but I assume it will, as otherwise there would be more complaints.
My understanding is that the "Accept these non-members" text box is mostly a legacy thing from before the non-members interface existed but it does have some useful functionality like wildcards, e.g. accepting ^.*@example.org.
The box also has a size limit, but it's so large (~64kb) that you'll never hit it...I hope. :-)
[1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/323
-- Kunal
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