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JP Béland

1 Mar 2013 1 Mar '13

10:02 p.m.

Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it? Thanks, JP aka Amqui

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Jon Harald Søby

1 Mar 1 Mar

10:06 p.m.

Hi! I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=v… However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR>, which gets its content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change. 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

...

Does anybody know where's the {{Babel# }} for the user boxes takes the names of languages from and how to request to change it? Thanks, JP aka Amqui _______________________________________________ Languages mailing list Languages(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

JP Béland

10:11 p.m.

Yes, I already had an non-success story with Unicode (not that they refused my 'request', more that it had kind of been ignored or it falled between the cracks as we say). The language' name I have problem with now, is for code ''bla'' which shows Siksika right now. This name is incorrect both in English and in the Native language (since Siksika is only 1/3 of the nations who speak that language). However, in the link you gave me for the messages, bla isn't listed... Thanks I will check that, JP aka Amqui 2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

Jon Harald Søby

10:48 p.m.

Yeah, that means it's from CLDR. The only option is to keep bugging Unicode I think… 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

...

Hi! I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=v…

However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when using the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR>, which gets

its

content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change. 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

_______________________________________________ Languages mailing list Languages(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

JP Béland

2 Mar 2 Mar

12:45 a.m.

I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish standards. However, if they don't provide the support we need as a project (and I mean WMF projects), maybe we need to look at ways to develop our own means to ''by-pass'' or ''orverride'' some of the info we are getting from those standardisation organisations. Just opening the thoughts... JP 2013/3/1, Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Yeah, that means it's from CLDR. The only option is to keep bugging Unicode I think… 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

Hi! I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=v…

its

content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change. 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

_______________________________________________ Languages mailing list Languages(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

Federico Leva (Nemo)

12:53 a.m.

JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:00:

...

Gerard Meijssen

1:11 a.m.

Hoi, The important thing to recognise is that the names of languages is only one aspect of what makes the CLDR. There are many more details to the CLDR, collation for instance. This is where the WMF is not that interested in following the standard even though it recognises that the point made by the CLDR is valid. What both the WMF and Unicode need (CLDR is a Unicode standard), is the information that is what the CLDR is about for any and all languages. For Unicode it is vital that the standard is correct.. as correct as humanly possible. When the WMF was to collect all the information needed for all languages, when it would use it with the explicit understanding to have it flow towards Unicode's CLDR standard, there is a chance that there will be winners. However do realise that this is hard work. You will need to improve cautiously on the existing processes and data. It will take a considerable amount of time and it can work. Thanks, GerardM On 1 March 2013 20:08, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:00: I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish

standards. However, if they don't provide the support we need as a project (and I mean WMF projects), maybe we need to look at ways to develop our own means to ''by-pass'' or ''orverride'' some of the info we are getting from those standardisation organisations. Just opening the thoughts...

No, just ask our CLDR contacts (Amir and Santhosh, maybe someone else too) to use Wikimedia's vote as you think needed for Wikimedia. It's possible that you're not using the most correct process (CLDR is not super-easy): bugs are easier but less formal, they're very nice and helpful but if it gets controversial it may not be handled in the most formal way which includes "voting". Nemo ______________________________**_________________ Languages mailing list Languages(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/languages<https://lists.w…

JP Béland

1:37 a.m.

Hey, I don't think such request regarding the "name of a language" has to go through CLDR, but through SIL (anyway, that's what I understood the last time). It seems to me that SIL is the "Registration Authority" for ISO 639-3 which is the standard for "Codes for the representation of names of languages". CLDR website points to it at several different places (especially when looking to add a new language to their locales). Maybe it's possible to define a different "language name" within CLDR data for a specific locale than the language name contains in the ISO 639, I'm not sure. http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/ If somebody with more experience there could help sort out "who's who in the zoo" and what are the processes in general, that would be helpful to us. Thanks, JP 2013/3/1, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:00: I understand those type of organisations are responsible to establish

Federico Leva (Nemo)

21 Mar 21 Mar

8:11 p.m.

JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:52:

...

I don't think such request regarding the "name of a language" has to go through CLDR, but through SIL (anyway, that's what I understood the last time). It seems to me that SIL is the "Registration Authority" for ISO 639-3 which is the standard for "Codes for the representation of names of languages". CLDR website points to it at several different places (especially when looking to add a new language to their locales).

I don't understand, does the language in question lack an ISO code?

...

Maybe it's possible to define a different "language name" within CLDR data for a specific locale than the language name contains in the ISO 639, I'm not sure. http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/ If somebody with more experience there could help sort out "who's who in the zoo" and what are the processes in general, that would be helpful to us.

It's right there in the page, «SIL International has been designated as the ISO 639-3/RA for the purpose of processing requests for alpha-3 language codes comprising the International Standard, Codes for the representation of names of languages - Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of languages». Only codes, not names. Nemo

JP Béland

11:52 p.m.

2013/3/21, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

JP Béland, 01/03/2013 20:52:

I don't understand, does the language in question lack an ISO code?

Gerard Meijssen

22 Mar 22 Mar

3:02 a.m.

Hoi, According to Ethnologue, bla is for Blackfoot ... Is that correct ? Thanks, GerardM On 1 March 2013 17:26, JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi! I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you can find them on

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=v…

its

content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change. 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

_______________________________________________ Languages mailing list Languages(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages

JP Béland

8:17 a.m.

That's better. That's the name of the language in English. Templates on Wikimedia projects with 'bla' show ''Siksika'' which is incorrect. JP 2013/3/21 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>

...

Hoi, According to Ethnologue, bla is for Blackfoot ... Is that correct ? Thanks, GerardM On 1 March 2013 17:26, JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi! I think the names in the Babel boxes are part of the messages, so you

can

find them on

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?group=ext-babel&task=v…

However, language names in other places (such as <languages /> when

using

the Translate extension, and the interwiki links) are from the CLDR extension <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CLDR>, which gets

its

content from Unicode, and is more difficult to change. 2013/3/1 JP Béland <lebo.beland(a)gmail.com>

-- mvh Jon Harald Søby <

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by>

_______________________________________________ Languages mailing list Languages(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/languages

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Federico Leva (Nemo)
Gerard Meijssen
Jon Harald Søby
JP Béland