I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.

Sotiale

2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:

Hello Srishti Thank you for keeping us in the loop. I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.

---

Tochi

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

Hello Language Committee,

I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.

Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:

Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.

Exploring social pathways

For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:

Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.

Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299

After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):

Mapudungun

Southern Ndebele

Obolo

Tai Nüa

Pannonian Rusyn

We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.

Cheers,

Srishti

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

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Thank you for your response Srishti. I'll read through the article and get back to you if I have any questions, suggestions or concerns.

--- Tochi

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, 12:55 AM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

Hello all,

Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:

...

I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.

That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.

...

On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:

I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are proposing

...

to the process. I am specifically interested in:

Why does the current system not work?

What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?

Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.

2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:

...

I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a

...

suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.

Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.

We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.

We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!

Cheers, Srishti

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

...

...

Hello Language Committee,

I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.

Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:

Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.

Exploring social pathways

For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:

Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.

Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299

After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):

Mapudungun

Southern Ndebele

Obolo

Tai Nüa

Pannonian Rusyn

We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.

Cheers,

Srishti

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

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Hello MF-Warburg,

Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.

About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.

All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still

require a verification of the content.

We agree with this.

As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.

Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.

I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...

...

.

Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):

[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]

Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.

Cheers, Srishti

Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <

ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hello all,

Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:

...

I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.

That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.

...

On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:

I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are

...

proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:

Why does the current system not work?

What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?

Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.

2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 작성:

...

I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a

...

suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.

Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.

We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.

We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!

Cheers, Srishti

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

...

...

Hello Language Committee,

I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki.

Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, several recommendations emerged, which are documented here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas:

Streamlining technical infrastructure 2.

Exploring social pathways

For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the following:

Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the incubator.

Please see the detailed proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299

After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see attached screenshot):

Mapudungun

Southern Ndebele

Obolo

Tai Nüa

Pannonian Rusyn

We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th.

Cheers,

Srishti

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

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Hello MF-Warburg,

On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 3:37 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

To get approval of the projects until 10 September is a fast timeline, but could be doable.

I think the next steps are:

1. Langcom - announcement of intended approval (on Meta)

Thanks for your support! I see that the intended approval has already been published on Meta-wiki < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Five_Wikipedias%3E. We are happy to wait for the full seven-day notice period (until September 14th).

2. WMF - contact communities to see if they want to be involved - if not

already done?

Given that we are providing full-wiki access and will probably not rollback the wikis to the Incubator (unless under extreme circumstances), we believe it should be fine to inform them before wiki creation. However, we probably don’t need their approval and would like to let them know they are being approved, invite them to edit, share a bit about the experiment, and provide the necessary resources they would need to get started. Getting approval from the limited number of users editing in these languages might become a bottleneck and defeat the purpose of the experiment, which is intended to be small and quick (as in "wiki").

3. Langcom - verification of the content. This could be the main

bottleneck, but it could also be fast, depending on if experts are found.

Our understanding was that this is something that can happen in subsequent months after the wikis are created, as the very purpose of the experiment is to give full production wiki access to five languages so that they can use advanced features like Content Translation to help grow content. A verification requirement prior to the experiment may defeat the very purpose of the experiment.

Cheers, Srishti

Am Mi., 4. Sept. 2024 um 21:48 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <

ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hello MF-Warburg,

Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.

About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.

All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still

...

require a verification of the content.

We agree with this.

...

As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.

Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.

...

I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...

...

.

Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):

[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]

Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.

Cheers, Srishti

Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <

...

ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hello all,

Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:

...

I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time.

That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.

...

On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk wrote:

I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are

...

proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:

Why does the current system not work?

What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?

Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.

2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이

...

작성:

I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but a

...

suggestion: Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.

Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.

We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.

We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!

Cheers, Srishti

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org

...

...

wrote:

> Hello Language Committee, > > I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment addressing > a new approach to onboarding a language wiki. > > Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant > stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, > Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current > challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, > several recommendations emerged, which are documented here > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations > which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas: > > 1. > > Streamlining technical infrastructure > 2. > > Exploring social pathways > > > For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation and > as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, > the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language > Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the > difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical > limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the > following: > > Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new wiki > approval backlog which have been either already approved by the Language > Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production infrastructure > so that they do not have to continue writing content on the incubator wiki. > At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of these prioritized > wikis compared to other test projects (approved or otherwise) still in the > incubator. > > Please see the detailed proposal > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, > including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, > and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: > https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299 > > After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF relevant > to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point towards > better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move onwards > we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language Committee and > start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the email, we would > like to include as part of the experiment following list of wikis (also see > attached screenshot): > > > > - > > Mapudungun > - > > Southern Ndebele > - > > Obolo > - > > Tai Nüa > - > > Pannonian Rusyn > > > We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and > would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to > the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th. > > Cheers, > > Srishti > > *Srishti Sethi* > Senior Developer Advocate > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

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Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 1:58 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

That's great, I adjusted the notice accordingly. Speaking of this, can you remind us how long the time for "monitoring" the wikis is intended to be?

The time for monitoring will be 3-4 months.

I do not care too much about what exactly the note says, but has the WMF team already been in contact with communities?

I have posted on the talk pages of wikis https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=all&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-10&end=2024-09-10 that were proposed for approval. We also plan to contact active editors of these languages just in case the talk pages are not added to their watchlist. Let us know if there is anything we might have missed.

Am Mi., 4. Sept. 2024 um 21:48 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <

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ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hello MF-Warburg,

Thanks a lot for your valuable insights! Please see our response inline:

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

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The "number of editors" is according to the Catanalysis counting normally used by Langcom, which varies from the criteria mentioned in the proposal. Just to explain any discrepancy.

About the discrepancy in the number of editors, it could be because Catanalysis counts only categories, or it could be due to the fact that as part of the selection criteria, we excluded editors who edit across more than 5 languages in the Incubator, considering that they may not be associated with a specific language community and are generally enthusiastic about helping other communities.

All requests on Meta are marked as eligible. All five wikis would still

...

require a verification of the content.

We agree with this.

...

As Sotiale already pointed out, Wp/tdd and Wp/rsk fulfill the approval criteria anyway, i.e. they don't need to be approved under this experimental scheme but could be approved normally. It seems to me that it would be unfair to "clearly mark these wikis as new to distinguish them from other production wikis for the pilot period" then.

Among the five data clusters formed for the experiment, the first two are related to low activity, while the last two are related to high activity. Wp/rsk has 1,000 edits in the last 3 months, and there are 6 languages at the same level. For Wp/tdd, there are 8 languages. So the experiment will allow us to compare Wp/rsk to the other similar 6 languages and compare Wp/tdd to the other similar 8 languages. We will not distinguish them as different from other production wikis, but will mark them in some way to indicate that they are being monitored.

...

I have my doubts about the suitability of Wp/arn, given the extremely low number of edits and editors. Also, as far as I could see, none of them seems to be a native speaker of the language, which we absolutely want to avoid. There is also still the old problem of the code being perceived as pejorative < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mapudun...

...

.

Thanks for digging into Catanalysis stats! Taking your consideration into account, we are proposing an alternative suggestion for Arn. Here it goes for *Krio language* (kri):

[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-04 18-41-08.png]

Lastly, we would appreciate the Language Committee’s support in approving the 5 language wikis by *September 10th*. After this date, we would like to proceed to the next steps in the experiment. Your timely approval will help us stick to the project timeline and allow us sufficient time to monitor the wikis and learn from this experiment.

Cheers, Srishti

Am Fr., 30. Aug. 2024 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi <

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ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hello all,

Thank you so much for taking the time to review the proposal and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Please see my response inline.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 5:25 AM Sotiale Wiki sotiale.wm@gmail.com wrote:

> I haven't read the details so I don't know the criteria for the > random samples that the feature shows, but if we rule out other criteria, > it looks like rsk, tdd definitely meet the community sustainability > criteria. I think it's probably just a list of the most likely ones in > ascending order. But this alone could be very useful. It's definitely more > convenient than having to manually check recent activity all the time. >

That's very helpful to hear that metrics like this could be useful tools for monitoring activity.

> On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 9:29 PM Denis Smajlović deni@deni.dk > wrote:

I am unable to get an overview of the exact changes that you are > proposing to the process. I am specifically interested in:

Why does the current system not work?

What specific changes do you suggest be implemented?

Thanks for your question! This experiment addresses the issue of languages spending many years in the Incubator before they can graduate, as well as the technical challenges they face while editing. The technical challenges faced by contributors to small language versions of Wikipedia are also highlighted in the Language Diversity Hub’s research findings < https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Barriers_experienced_by_contributors.... This experiment is a step forward, aiming to understand whether granting 5 test wikis (that meet the experiment’s selection criteria) access to their own Wikipedia sites and domains improves their editing experience compared to when they were in the Incubator. Specifically, it seeks to determine if access to modern wiki features that are available to Wikimedia wikis (e.g., Content Translation, Wikidata) play a role in their editing productivity.

2024년 8월 27일 (화) 오전 5:51, Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com님이 > 작성: > I've checked through the criteria, and I have nothing more to add but > a suggestion: > Why don't you also make it a combination of recently added wikis, as > well as the older wikis. I noticed that the most recent one in the list has > spent at least 2yrs in the incubator, maybe something a year or less. I > would also like to see the kind of results this will produce.

Thanks, Tochi, for your suggestion! For this experiment, the curated list of 35 languages meeting the inclusion and selection criteria ranges from 6 months to 16 years in the Incubator, with only 6 of these wikis having spent slightly less than 2 years. Since we need 5 wikis for the pilot, we have formed 5 clusters of languages ranging from low to mid to high activity (and across all time periods), with one language randomly selected from each cluster. We will observe the impact of the treatment at the cluster level and determine how this varies depending on the activity level of the project. Given the way we are clustering data and forming sets of languages, with each cluster meeting a specific set of criteria, it is essential to select a different language if we were to choose from within the same cluster. Regarding the 2-year time period, the closest we have is Pannonian Rusyn, which is about 2.24 years old.

We have also published a report about the methodology used, various approaches considered, and how we reached the current set of languages at < https://analytics.wikimedia.org/published/reports/languages_onboarding_exper.... For a quick read, you can refer to the “Background” and “Approach” sections and summary in the “Clustering” and “Sampling” sections.

We would like to hear any more thoughts and suggestions preferably by the end of this week!

Cheers, Srishti

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 4:52 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Language Committee, >>> >>> I am writing today to share a proposal for an experiment >>> addressing a new approach to onboarding a language wiki. >>> >>> Since December 2023, we have had conversations with 35 relevant >>> stakeholders, including three members from the Language Committee (Tochi, >>> Mf-Warburg, and Jon), to develop recommendations addressing a few current >>> challenges with the incubation journey. As a result of these discussions, >>> several recommendations emerged, which are documented here >>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation/Recommendations >>> which can be broadly grouped into the following two key areas: >>> >>> 1. >>> >>> Streamlining technical infrastructure >>> 2. >>> >>> Exploring social pathways >>> >>> >>> For the 2024-25 annual planned work of the Wikimedia Foundation >>> and as part of the Content Growth objective (WE2/Knowledge Equity) >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity#Closing_Knowledge_Gaps, >>> the Language and Product Localization team with guidance from the Language >>> Committee members, identified a recommendation that addresses some of the >>> difficulties of content creation in the Incubator due to technical >>> limitations of the platform. To address this, we would like to try the >>> following: >>> >>> Identify a set of requests (maximum 5) from the list in the new >>> wiki approval backlog which have been either already approved by the >>> Language Committee and, prioritize their creation on the production >>> infrastructure so that they do not have to continue writing content on the >>> incubator wiki. At the end of a stipulated period we evaluate progress of >>> these prioritized wikis compared to other test projects (approved or >>> otherwise) still in the incubator. >>> >>> Please see the detailed proposal >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wpwimVyhLOJVMnIos4cAAquTglbjdKfiHcdUmHROc3s/edit?usp=sharing, >>> including selection and inclusion criteria, timeline, implementation plan, >>> and more information. We also presented this proposal at Wikimania 2024: >>> https://youtu.be/BbGrkYK8FEk?t=20299 >>> >>> After consultations with several other teams inside the WMF >>> relevant to this area of work we believe this is a feasible starting point >>> towards better content creation experiences for newer communities. To move >>> onwards we would like to reach a shared agreement with the Language >>> Committee and start off the pilot. Based on the criteria listed in the >>> email, we would like to include as part of the experiment following list of >>> wikis (also see attached screenshot): >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> >>> Mapudungun >>> - >>> >>> Southern Ndebele >>> - >>> >>> Obolo >>> - >>> >>> Tai Nüa >>> - >>> >>> Pannonian Rusyn >>> >>> >>> We would like to kick off this experiment as early as possible and >>> would really appreciate hearing your suggestions on changes or additions to >>> the selection criteria and initial list of wikis by August 24th. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Srishti >>> >>> *Srishti Sethi* >>> Senior Developer Advocate >>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>> [image: screenshot_from_2024-08-07_19-41-25.png] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.

Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]

Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.

Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.

Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

Thank you.

Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.

Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.

Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]

Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.

Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.

Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann

I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.

We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...

...

)

Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Thank you.

Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.

Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.

Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

[re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large]

Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to active editors yet but I assume they are there.

Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the private list.

No objections.

Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?

[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann

I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.

We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...

...

)

Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Thank you.

Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the private list.

Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 editors https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 and emailed the ones with the feature enabled.

Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response from Wp/nr https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 . *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve my > own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] > > Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to > active editors yet but I assume they are there. > > Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the > private list. > > >

Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

...

No objections.

Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?

[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann

I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would be the more complete sentence.

We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni...

...

)

Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the sequence. *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

> Thank you. > > Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the > private list. > > Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < > ssethi@wikimedia.org>: > >> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the >> top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user >> pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 >> editors >> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >> >> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive response >> from Wp/nr >> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >> . >> *Srishti Sethi* >> Senior Developer Advocate >> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve >>> my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>> >>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >>> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>> >>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the >>> private list. >>> >>> >>>

This is great news! Thank you so much MF-Warburg and Language Committee for your support in getting the five wikis approved.

Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com wrote:

That's great to hear.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 6:04 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

...

For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

...

No objections.

Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment?

[image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three more language communities: Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann

I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions.

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

> Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would > be the more complete sentence. > > We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and rskwiki > as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni... > >) > > Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < > ssethi@wikimedia.org>: > >> Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist >> for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language >> Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the >> sequence. >> *Srishti Sethi* >> Senior Developer Advocate >> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg < >> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the >>> private list. >>> >>> Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>> >>>> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >>>> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered the >>>> top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing user >>>> pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages of 16 >>>> editors >>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >>>> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >>>> >>>> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive >>>> response from Wp/nr >>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >>>> . >>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to approve >>>>> my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >>>>> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>>>> >>>>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to the >>>>> private list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

Is it planned to share results from the experiment in any other way?

Am Di., 29. Apr. 2025 um 00:46 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since we posted here - thanks for all your support with the onboarding experiment! I wanted to share that we recently announced our next *Language Community Meeting*, which will take place on *May 30th at 15:00 UTC*!

Some of you might be interested in this particular edition, as we plan to cover results from the onboarding experiment and hear experiences from a Nigerian contributor who contributes to the Obolo wiki, which was part of this experiment. If you are interested in joining the meeting, you can sign up on the wiki page: < https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/C...

...

We look forward to your ideas and participation at the Language Community Meeting, see you there!

Cheers, Srishti

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 2:05 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

This is great news! Thank you so much MF-Warburg and Language Committee for your support in getting the five wikis approved.

Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM Tochi Precious tochiprecious2@gmail.com wrote:

...

That's great to hear.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 6:04 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

...

For the public record: Tai Nüa verified.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

...

No objections.

Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

> It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as Krio > (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. Either > they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors have > not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language from a > different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your thoughts on > this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment? > > [image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] > *Srishti Sethi* > Senior Developer Advocate > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org > wrote: > >> Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three >> more language communities: >> Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd >> Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk >> Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann >> >> I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and we >> are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as well, >> but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. I will >> talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative suggestions. >> >> *Srishti Sethi* >> Senior Developer Advocate >> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg < >> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] would >>> be the more complete sentence. >>> >>> We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and >>> rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., >>> < >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni... >>> >) >>> >>> Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>> >>>> Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a linguist >>>> for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the Language >>>> Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to understand the >>>> sequence. >>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg < >>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to the >>>>> private list. >>>>> >>>>> Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>>>> >>>>>> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >>>>>> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >>>>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered >>>>>> the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing >>>>>> user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk pages >>>>>> of 16 editors >>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >>>>>> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive >>>>>> response from Wp/nr >>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >>>>>> . >>>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >>>>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to >>>>>>> approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message to >>>>>>> active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to >>>>>>> the private list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

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Thanks Jon for the link to the Phabricator task! If Language Committee members are interested in having a separate meeting about this, I would be happy to propose a date and time for us to chat about the outcomes.

Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 3:57 AM Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com wrote:

See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T362368#10710195

søn. 4. mai 2025 kl. 16:22 skrev MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com:

...

Is it planned to share results from the experiment in any other way?

Am Di., 29. Apr. 2025 um 00:46 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since we posted here - thanks for all your support with the onboarding experiment! I wanted to share that we recently announced our next *Language Community Meeting*, which will take place on *May 30th at 15:00 UTC*!

Some of you might be interested in this particular edition, as we plan to cover results from the onboarding experiment and hear experiences from a Nigerian contributor who contributes to the Obolo wiki, which was part of this experiment. If you are interested in joining the meeting, you can sign up on the wiki page: < https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/C...

...

We look forward to your ideas and participation at the Language Community Meeting, see you there!

Cheers, Srishti

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 2:05 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

This is great news! Thank you so much MF-Warburg and Language Committee for your support in getting the five wikis approved.

Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM Tochi Precious < tochiprecious2@gmail.com> wrote:

...

That's great to hear.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 6:04 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:

...

Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created.

Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < mfwarburg@googlemail.com>:

> For the public record: Tai Nüa verified. > > Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < > mfwarburg@googlemail.com>: > >> No objections. >> >> Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >> >>> It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as >>> Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. >>> Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors >>> have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language >>> from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your >>> thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment? >>> >>> [image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] >>> *Srishti Sethi* >>> Senior Developer Advocate >>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi < >>> ssethi@wikimedia.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from three >>>> more language communities: >>>> Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd >>>> Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk >>>> Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann >>>> >>>> I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and >>>> we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as >>>> well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. >>>> I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative >>>> suggestions. >>>> >>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg < >>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] >>>>> would be the more complete sentence. >>>>> >>>>> We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and >>>>> rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., >>>>> < >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni... >>>>> >) >>>>> >>>>> Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a >>>>>> linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the >>>>>> Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to >>>>>> understand the sequence. >>>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg < >>>>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to >>>>>>> the private list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>>>>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time to >>>>>>>> generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >>>>>>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We considered >>>>>>>> the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with missing >>>>>>>> user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk >>>>>>>> pages of 16 editors >>>>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >>>>>>>> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive >>>>>>>> response from Wp/nr >>>>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >>>>>>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to >>>>>>>>> approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the message >>>>>>>>> to active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded to >>>>>>>>> the private list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

---

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-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

Hi all, I wanted to send a quick reminder about the Language Community Meeting taking place this coming Friday, May 30th, at 15:00 UTC. If you are interested in joining, please see more details and sign up here: < https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/C...

.

Presentations will be on the following topics: * Outcomes from the Language Onboarding Experiment by User:SGill (WMF) and User:KCVelaga (WMF) * Contributions from the Obolo community in Nigeria by User:Katelem * A New Developer’s Journey in Language Technical Contributions by User:ToluAyod

Looking forward to your participation! *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Wed, May 7, 2025 at 11:20 AM Baibaswata Ray baibaswataray@gmail.com wrote:

I just finished reading the research, it's quite informative. The part about activity often declining after a project gets published, along with the challenges new projects face, really stood out to me. As a community, how can we address these issues and work toward preventing contributor burnout? What practical solutions can we implement?

From personal observation, I've noticed that during the Incubator phase, it's extremely difficult to maintain an active community over a period of six months—especially when editors don't see any clear signs of success or progress in return for their time-consuming contributions. This lack of visible reward or encouragement can lead to discouragement and, eventually, loss of motivation among contributors.

I think it would be helpful to have some form of structured progress tracking; like small, achievable goals or a visual progress bar that clearly shows how close the project is to becoming a standalone site. Something like that could give contributors a stronger sense that their work is moving the project forward. I understand this may not be a complete solution, and I haven't thought through all the details.

Ultimately, the community is the backbone of any project. We need to find ways to keep contributors motivated, whether through recognition, appreciation, or tools that show them their work is truly making a difference.

On Wed, 7 May 2025 at 02:45, Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

Thanks Jon for the link to the Phabricator task! If Language Committee members are interested in having a separate meeting about this, I would be happy to propose a date and time for us to chat about the outcomes.

Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 3:57 AM Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com wrote:

...

See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T362368#10710195

søn. 4. mai 2025 kl. 16:22 skrev MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com:

...

Is it planned to share results from the experiment in any other way?

Am Di., 29. Apr. 2025 um 00:46 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < ssethi@wikimedia.org>:

...

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since we posted here - thanks for all your support with the onboarding experiment! I wanted to share that we recently announced our next *Language Community Meeting*, which will take place on *May 30th at 15:00 UTC*!

Some of you might be interested in this particular edition, as we plan to cover results from the onboarding experiment and hear experiences from a Nigerian contributor who contributes to the Obolo wiki, which was part of this experiment. If you are interested in joining the meeting, you can sign up on the wiki page: < https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/C...

...

We look forward to your ideas and participation at the Language Community Meeting, see you there!

Cheers, Srishti

*Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 2:05 PM Srishti Sethi ssethi@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

This is great news! Thank you so much MF-Warburg and Language Committee for your support in getting the five wikis approved.

Cheers, Srishti *Srishti Sethi* Senior Developer Advocate Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:08 PM Tochi Precious < tochiprecious2@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's great to hear. > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 6:04 PM MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com > wrote: > >> Noting here that 5 projects are now ready to be created. >> >> Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:29 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < >> mfwarburg@googlemail.com>: >> >>> For the public record: Tai Nüa verified. >>> >>> Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 14:24 Uhr schrieb MF-Warburg < >>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com>: >>> >>>> No objections. >>>> >>>> Am Di., 17. Sept. 2024 um 23:36 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>>> >>>>> It appears that all the other languages in the same cluster as >>>>> Krio (Okinawan, Pipil, Mapudungun, and Tarifit) may have the same issue. >>>>> Either they are too small in terms of the number of speakers or the editors >>>>> have not been active recently. Therefore, we are now proposing a language >>>>> from a different cluster: Arakanese (see screenshot). What are your >>>>> thoughts on this language as a suitable candidate for the experiment? >>>>> >>>>> [image: Screenshot from 2024-09-17 21-57-17.png] >>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 2:28 PM Srishti Sethi < >>>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! I see that we have received positive responses from >>>>>> three more language communities: >>>>>> Tdd https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/tdd >>>>>> Rsk https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/rsk >>>>>> Ann https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/ann >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not yet received any response from the Kri language, and >>>>>> we are past the deadline. I pinged the active editors in other venues as >>>>>> well, but my impression is that the editors have not been active recently. >>>>>> I will talk to our team to see if we can propose other alternative >>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 10:13 AM MF-Warburg < >>>>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, the former. Verification [of the content by a linguist] >>>>>>> would be the more complete sentence. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We can create the Phabricator requests to create nrwiki and >>>>>>> rskwiki as soon as we have the necessary settings. (< >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_South_N..., >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Pannoni... >>>>>>> >) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Fr., 13. Sept. 2024 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>>>>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you! Is it because the Language Committee found a >>>>>>>> linguist for Pannonian Rusyn, or did the community express interest to the >>>>>>>> Language Committee in participating in the experiment? I am trying to >>>>>>>> understand the sequence. >>>>>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:12 AM MF-Warburg < >>>>>>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Verification for Pannonian Rusyn has just been forwarded to >>>>>>>>> the private list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am Do., 12. Sept. 2024 um 22:08 Uhr schrieb Srishti Sethi < >>>>>>>>> ssethi@wikimedia.org>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just posted on the user talk pages. It took us some time >>>>>>>>>> to generate the editor list (Phab:T374552 >>>>>>>>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T374552). We >>>>>>>>>> considered the top 5 editors for each wiki and then filtered out those with >>>>>>>>>> missing user pages on Incubator. In total, we posted on the talk >>>>>>>>>> pages of 16 editors >>>>>>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=SSethi+%28WMF%29&namespace=3&tagfilter=&start=2024-09-12&end=2024-09-12&limit=50 >>>>>>>>>> and emailed the ones with the feature enabled. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Additionally, I see that we have just received a positive >>>>>>>>>> response from Wp/nr >>>>>>>>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wp/nr&diff=prev&oldid=6376641 >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> *Srishti Sethi* >>>>>>>>>> Senior Developer Advocate >>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 6:40 AM MF-Warburg < >>>>>>>>>> mfwarburg@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [re-sending without the older messages, I keep having to >>>>>>>>>>> approve my own mails to the mailing list because they are too large] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for posting the messages. I haven't seen the >>>>>>>>>>> message to active editors yet but I assume they are there. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Verification for Southern Ndebele has just been forwarded >>>>>>>>>>> to the private list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> > _______________________________________________

Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

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-- mvh Jon Harald Søby _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

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As for Lingua Franca Nova, I haven't been able to find any discussion or decision (neither in the LangCom archives, nor on Meta) about treating its external wiki as a test project. All I know is that it has been present https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wp/lfn&action=history in the Incubator, but I have no idea whether that was really the place where "it" happened. What I do know, however, is that a similar request https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Toki_Pona_2 has been made for Toki Pona: *'This proposal is slightly unusual in that it seeks to have an external wiki considered as the "test project". I have cleared https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=22937919&diff=22958758 with a LangCom member that, at least in principle, this is possible. (If upon further review LangCom decides we must move to Incubator, we are open to it, but would prefer not to for the reasons explained in that discussion.)'*

The difference with LFN and Toki is that Interslavic was never meant to serve as the language of a community of Interslavic speakers in the first place. My ambition for an Interslavic Wikipedia is that it will serve as an additional source of information for those who don't have access to it in their own language. That's why visibility is important, and from that point of view, the Incubator is still a small step forward compared to a place that few people even know about. Besides, there is more activity in the Incubator than in our old wiki at the moment. That activity is likely to increase even further after an interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mZ7UPyQSA I gave about our new Incubator project a few days ago; before that, neither our old wiki nor the Incubator have ever been actively promoted within our groups.

The only real problem is the absence of a transliteration engine in the Incubator. That won't be a problem if it's only for a few months, but such a situation shouldn't linger on for too long. If LangCom would be willing to review (and if all conditions are met, approve) our project before, say, the end of the year, then we can always import the necessary tools from the old wiki once isv.wikipedia.org has been created. That would probably be the easiest solution, now that I think of it.

As for your second point, the experiment, you are probably right about that, although the Incubator and an external wiki have at least one thing in common, namely their relative invisibility compared to a "real" Wikipedia.

By the way, since this thread is now titled "Interslavic", may I ask the Language Committee to verify Interslavic as eligible?

Best regards, Jan van Steenbergen

Op ma 2 sep 2024 om 00:15 schreef MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com:

I'm creating a new thread as I don't think this project can be included in the experiment proposed by Srishti Sethi et al. If the situation is similar to the Lingua Franca Nova project - I will need to read up about what happened then and see if the same applies here - it can indeed "skip" the Incubator as the incubation phase will simply be considered to have happened elsewhere. Therefore it would not need to be fast-tracked for the experiment. I also think it's not helpful for the experiment, as the experiment wants to compare Incubator with its peculiarities against an own wiki, while this project already uses its own wiki. _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-leave@lists.wikimedia.org