Wikiversity Simple English

IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can easily be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code). _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

Oliver Stegen

1:38 p.m.

At one point LangCom had said that a language which has successfully applied for one project can have any following ones without problems (provided there is a community for it which takes care of it). And of course, we do have a Simple English wikipedia. However, in this particular case, I don't think that the "second projects granted" rule should apply as the very existence of simple:wp is an exception in the first place. So, I vote for rejection on this. Oliver On 06-Feb-16 12:08 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

...

Hoi, I totally agree. Thanks, GerardM On 5 February 2016 at 16:59, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com <mailto:mfwarburg@googlemail.com>> wrote: There is a proposal at <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simple_English> IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can easily be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code). _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

Michael Everson

3:20 p.m.

en-simple.wikipedia.org is now permitted.

...

On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:59, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote: There is a proposal at <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simple_English> IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can easily be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code).

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

MF-Warburg

3:39 p.m.

Who decided that? 2016-02-06 16:20 GMT+01:00 Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>om>:

...

en-simple.wikipedia.org is now permitted.

On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:59, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote: There is a proposal at <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simp…

IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can easily

be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code). Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

Gerard Meijssen

3:42 p.m.

Hoi, That is just a matter of asking for inclusion in the standard. Michael is well placed to do so. Thanks, Gerard On 6 February 2016 at 16:39, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Who decided that? 2016-02-06 16:20 GMT+01:00 Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>om>:

en-simple.wikipedia.org is now permitted.

On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:59, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote: There is a proposal at <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simp…

IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can easily

_______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

MF-Warburg

3:46 p.m.

...

Hoi, That is just a matter of asking for inclusion in the standard. Michael is well placed to do so. Thanks, Gerard On 6 February 2016 at 16:39, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

Who decided that? 2016-02-06 16:20 GMT+01:00 Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>om>:

en-simple.wikipedia.org is now permitted.

On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:59, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote: There is a proposal at <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simp…

IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can

easily be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code). Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

_______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

Michael Everson

5:58 p.m.

The subtag “simple” is now official, so “en-simple” is as appropriate for use as “be-tarask” is. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

Oliver Stegen

7:34 p.m.

...

I am well aware of the recent discussion here about a "subtag" for Simple English (at which, however, something like "en-x-wpsimple" was mentioned, not en-simple). However, that doesn't mean it now has an ISO 639-1 or -3 code as our policy requires and that also doesn't prejudice Langcom's decision on the eligibility. 2016-02-06 16:42 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com <mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>>: Hoi, That is just a matter of asking for inclusion in the standard. Michael is well placed to do so. Thanks, Gerard On 6 February 2016 at 16:39, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com <mailto:mfwarburg@googlemail.com>> wrote: Who decided that? 2016-02-06 16:20 GMT+01:00 Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com <mailto:everson@evertype.com>>: en-simple.wikipedia.org <http://en-simple.wikipedia.org> is now permitted.

On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:59, MF-Warburg

<mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com <mailto:mfwarburg@googlemail.com>> wrote:

There is a proposal at

<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simple_English>

IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English

courses" can easily be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code). Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

MF-Warburg

7:55 p.m.

Yes, without a doubt. I did not intend to say anything about suddenly disallowing simple *Wikipedia*. Am 06.02.2016 20:34 schrieb "Oliver Stegen" <oliver_stegen(a)sil.org>rg>:

...

MF: the Simple English wikipedia was approved long before we had regulations about ISO codes and suchlike (cf. http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaSIMPLE.htm), and we do not usually "uncharter" active wikis, even if they wouldn't pass our current requirements (I understand that there are a number of European dialects with wiki projects which do not have an ISO code of their own). However, while our regulations stipulate that subsequent wiki projects are easily granted for languages which already have an active project, I see the need, as I have written, to not allow that for languages without ISO code. So: Simple English *wikipedia* can continue but we shouldn't allow other projects (like the requested wikiversity) for Simple English. Is that consensus-able? (badly translated from German "konsensfähig") On 06-Feb-16 6:46 PM, MF-Warburg wrote: I am well aware of the recent discussion here about a "subtag" for Simple English (at which, however, something like "en-x-wpsimple" was mentioned, not en-simple). However, that doesn't mean it now has an ISO 639-1 or -3 code as our policy requires and that also doesn't prejudice Langcom's decision on the eligibility. 2016-02-06 16:42 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:

Hoi, That is just a matter of asking for inclusion in the standard. Michael is well placed to do so. Thanks, Gerard On 6 February 2016 at 16:39, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote:

Who decided that? 2016-02-06 16:20 GMT+01:00 Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>om>:

en-simple.wikipedia.org is now permitted. > On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:59, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > > There is a proposal at < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiversity_Simp… > > > IMHO, this needs to be rejected, as "Simple English courses" can easily be hosted on en.wikiversity (also, there is of course no ISO code). Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

_______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

_______________________________________________ Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

Michael Everson

10:12 p.m.

On 6 Feb 2016, at 19:34, Oliver Stegen <oliver_stegen(a)sil.org> wrote: So: Simple English *wikipedia* can continue but we shouldn't allow other projects (like the requested wikiversity) for Simple English. be-tarask is valid. en-simple is valid and I understand that the simple wiki will be moved to en-simple I can think of no reason why en-simple.wikiversity.org should be subsumed under en.wikiversity.org What are you going to do? Here is a page: https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Genetics/Course Is this to be duplicated somehow? How is this to be given in both English and Simple English? https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Blood en-simple is valid. That’s enough, if people want to work on this. The Simple English Wikipedia is important to a particular user community. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

Samuel Klein

27 Feb 27 Feb

2:48 p.m.

I have often used snapshots of simple English Wikipedia, for young students learning English as a second language. The simple snapshot was the most popular reading supplement for the youngest OLPC users. It was the best resource on the web with a relatively uniform low-complexity level. (Some of the ELI5 efforts are charming, but more entertaining than practical) There is no easy way to extract such a subset from a mixed 'simple, normal, and advanced' English Wikipedia. And unfortunately, most mixed-complexity-level wikis do not allow anything at the extremes: to simple or to complex and someone else rewrites it. So: explicit tags with language complexity are needed. Until we have the tools and social norms to support a variety of different language standards (dialects, language level) on a single wiki, I hope we can sort the clumsy trading that is available —at the level of the entire wiki. There is surely an audience for simple English wv and wb. And for similar things in other major languages (communities around which exist elsewhere online, if not yet in wikimedia). I hope that lc-simple is now indeed valid. SJ On Feb 6, 2016 5:13 PM, "Michael Everson" <everson(a)evertype.com> wrote:

...

Michael Everson

5:16 p.m.

Samuel, Too many acronyms.

...

The simple snapshot was the most popular reading supplement for the youngest OLPC users.

OLPC?

...

It was the best resource on the web with a relatively uniform low-complexity level. (Some of the ELI5 efforts are charming,

EL15?

...

So: explicit tags with language complexity are needed.

What do you mean?

...

Until we have the tools and social norms to support a variety of different language standards (dialects, language level) on a single wiki,

That will never happen. en-simple.wikipedia editors work to a stylesheet. en.wikipedia editors write as they wish.

...

I hope that lc-simple is now indeed valid.

LC? Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

gfb hjjhjh

10:17 p.m.

2016/02/28 1:16 "Michael Everson" <everson(a)evertype.com>om>:

...

Samuel, Too many acronyms. > The simple snapshot was the most popular reading supplement for the

youngest OLPC users.

...

OLPC?

One Laptop per Children

...

> It was the best resource on the web with a relatively uniform

low-complexity level. (Some of the ELI5 efforts are charming,

...

EL15?

Explain like I'm five

...

So: explicit tags with language complexity are needed.

What do you mean?

which mean Samuel think there should be a way to find Wikipedia article according to their difficulty/level, and/or it's needed to have different version of same article for different audience base on the degree of expertise they have on the language/subject.

...

> Until we have the tools and social norms to support a variety of

different language standards (dialects, language level) on a single wiki,

...

That will never happen. en-simple.wikipedia editors work to a stylesheet.

en.wikipedia editors write as they wish.

...

I hope that lc-simple is now indeed valid.

LC?

language code

...

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom

Michael Everson

1 Mar 1 Mar

1:15 p.m.

On 27 Feb 2016, at 22:17, gfb hjjhjh <c933103(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

So: explicit tags with language complexity are needed.

What do you mean?

Since anyone can edit, an article’s level of complexity can be changed in seconds by anyone. This goal doesn’t seem feasible. We should approve Simple English projects like Wikiversity. en-simple isn’t the same as en. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

Samuel Klein

2 Mar 2 Mar

7:17 p.m.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com> wrote:

...

On 27 Feb 2016, at 22:17, gfb hjjhjh <c933103(a)gmail.com> wrote:

So: explicit tags with language complexity are needed.

What do you mean?

which mean Samuel think there should be a way to find Wikipedia article

according to their difficulty/level, and/or it's needed to have different version of same article for different audience base on the degree of expertise they have on the language/subject. Since anyone can edit, an article’s level of complexity can be changed in seconds by anyone. This goal doesn’t seem feasible. We should approve Simple English projects like Wikiversity. en-simple isn’t the same as en.

I agree with your conclusion, and it realizes my goal. Sam

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participants (6)

Gerard Meijssen
gfb hjjhjh
MF-Warburg
Michael Everson
Oliver Stegen
Samuel Klein