MF-W, I never saw your email on the proposed LPP changes at the time. What's more, I just looked through my email again, and still didn't see it. I only found your response when I looked at the online archive of the private list. I don't know what happened there, but I really was not trying to ignore any input. I promise you that, and apologize that it must appear otherwise.

I will not post the proposed changes live today at all. I will move them back to my sandbox, unhide them, and incorporate many of your comments.  Look here (perhaps an hour after this email):  Just a few points in response to that email:
Steven

Sent from Outlook


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Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 5:39 PM
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Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Proposed changes to LPP (Steven White)
   2. Request rejected without discussion (MF-Warburg)
   3. Re: Proposed changes to LPP (MF-Warburg)
   4. Requests for new languages: Wikisource Literary Chinese
      (Steven White)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 20:29:52 +0000
From: Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com>
To: "WMF LangCom (public)" <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] Proposed changes to LPP
Message-ID:
        <DM6PR04MB5676573895F5BCAAEC21C9839E6D0@DM6PR04MB5676.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The changes I proposed to LPP, which I first shared with the rest of the Committee on the private email list on 3 December 2018, will be posted on Meta for discussion a little later today (my time). The page containing the (proposed) revised policy is here<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLanguage_proposal_policy%2F2-2019_proposed_revision&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C792f97400d4c4ae4138008d68af19800%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636849167569583118&amp;sdata=geI%2FXrzrRk97FBl7v6kAPCse6PBxK9maSRKG5Swbk%2Fw%3D&amp;reserved=0>; discussion will be on that page's talk page.  I intend to leave the discussion up until the end of February, unless discussion really fades out before then.

Steven


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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 22:47:23 +0100
From: MF-Warburg <mfwarburg@googlemail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] Request rejected without discussion
Message-ID:
        <CAJKMOMXdtjiSpme1QS63_5t4s_SnMHCjRW5RwPtKojFtmCkN7A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi, a community member brought
https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRequests_for_new_languages%2FWikisource_Literary_Chinese&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C792f97400d4c4ae4138008d68af19800%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636849167569593135&amp;sdata=hHdK8tumgQKwhiHVspSCZDbE964fJ7E7vXtf7D9n9Os%3D&amp;reserved=0
to my attention. I see that Steven closed it as rejected. I am
flabbergasted, as this request has not been discussed here at all. In my
mail archive, I only see a mail from Steven from Nov 8, where he says it
should probably be marked as eligible.
I have not yet read all of the discussion on the request page, but from a
first glance, I see the some very good arguments in favour of such a
project.

I really don't understand why you marked this request as "rejected", even
though there has been 0 discussion in the committee, and even with some
self-invented rules like "Future requests will not be allowed at all for
two years". I therefore reverted it.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 22:52:24 +0100
From: MF-Warburg <mfwarburg@googlemail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposed changes to LPP
Message-ID:
        <CAJKMOMXLD_A4q7Anc+3X=v5gkV4zp3+3t+xizV8+SNuwVeAseg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

My irritation continues in this thread.
In the discussion on the private list, I have made several remarks about
the proposed changes. I never received an answer to them and now on the
Meta page I see that *none *of them have been reflected in the draft. Yes,
sometimes Langcom discussions attract a low level of participation, but
then you have to at least work with what you get and not ignore it.
What is happening?

Am Mo., 4. Feb. 2019 um 21:30 Uhr schrieb Steven White <
Koala19890@hotmail.com>:

> The changes I proposed to LPP, which I first shared with the rest of the
> Committee on the private email list on 3 December 2018, will be posted on
> Meta for discussion a little later today (my time). The page containing the
> (proposed) revised policy is here
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLanguage_proposal_policy%2F2-2019_proposed_revision&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C792f97400d4c4ae4138008d68af19800%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636849167569593135&amp;sdata=rcABaScn%2BVnodEUuD55ZYQcxz0D0tvY16EglhesoYiU%3D&amp;reserved=0>;
> discussion will be on that page's talk page.  I intend to leave the
> discussion up until the end of February, unless discussion really fades out
> before then.
>
> Steven
>
> Sent from Outlook <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fweboutlook&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C792f97400d4c4ae4138008d68af19800%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636849167569593135&amp;sdata=UcmFBKuxukrmszm1uSKHOR%2FLeDptJxaeAZO7jSitWwg%3D&amp;reserved=0>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 22:39:04 +0000
From: Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com>
To: "WMF LangCom (public)" <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] Requests for new languages: Wikisource Literary
        Chinese
Message-ID:
        <DM6PR04MB56766CCE504BEC7B133053629E6D0@DM6PR04MB5676.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

MF-Warburg reversed what he felt was a premature and unilateral decision on my part to reject this request, and rightly so. (This is not least because I just promised to continue to post non-routine closings here.) My apologies to the Committee. Nevertheless, I am proposing to reject this request, which has been actively running for about three months.

In certain respects, Literary Chinese has parallels to Latin, in that it was the literary lingua franca in much of East Asia—not just China—for centuries. On the basis of policy, one could thus justify allowing this as an independent project (currently in Multilingual Wikisource). At the same time, it is also a historical version of Chinese, and on the basis of policy, one could also justify housing this content in Chinese Wikisource.

As a practical matter, there is substantial Literary Chinese content in Chinese Wikisource already, and very little in Multilingual Wikisource. Except for the person who made the request, everyone else who contributed to the discussion on Meta feels that Literary Chinese is adequately and properly curated on Chinese Wikisource.

Over the course of the discussion, I made one request of the Chinese Wikisource community, and that was to make it possible for non-Mandarin speakers having an interest in this content to have a way to communicate other than in Mandarin. They have done so.

It doesn't really serve the bulk of the Literary Chinese community, nor WMF in general, to split Literary Chinese out from Chinese Wikisource as an independent project. The objections of the one user making the request notwithstanding, Wikisource content in Literary Chinese is better off staying in Chinese Wikisource.

The discussion page is here<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRequests_for_new_languages%2FWikisource_Literary_Chinese&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C792f97400d4c4ae4138008d68af19800%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636849167569603140&amp;sdata=aWbAZxSf1BADvEY6WZ1f4Qz0D3tucTy9grPKdNu73dA%3D&amp;reserved=0>. Thank you in advance for your comments. If there are not objections in seven days, I will proceed to close.

Steven


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End of Langcom Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1
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