[Langcom] Fwd: Re: [Langcom-l] name of Tunisian

Forwarding to the new list. ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- Von: "MF-Warburg" &lt;mfwarburg(a)googlemail.comDatum: 26.11.2014 12:44 Betreff: Re: [Langcom-l] name of Tunisian An: "Wikimedia Foundation Language committee" &lt;langcom-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Cc: If we want the pages to be deleted, the best way is to start a request for deleting the test-project on [[incubator:I:RFD]]. Am 26.11.2014 11:52 schrieb "Amir E. Aharoni" &lt;amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il > OK. I'll start a separate thread about it, because it may have wide > implications and it deserves attention. > For now I committed a patch to at least update the Arabic script language > name to something sensible, as was suggested in this thread: > https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/175972/ > -- > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי > http://aharoni.wordpress.com > ‪“We're living in pieces, > I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ > 2014-11-26 6:36 GMT+02:00 Oliver Stegen &lt;info(a)oliverstegen.net>> It's a really difficult call, and I'd appreciate if other LangCom >> members could pitch in. While NPOV normally applies to the content of >> individual articles, I consider it applicable to the entire stance of this >> group, and I would feel really uncomfortable having them affiliated with >> Wikimedia. But that is just my opinion ... >>> -- >> Oliver Stegen, PhD >> Linguistics Consultant >> *http://sil.academia.edu/OliverStegen >> <http://sil.academia.edu/OliverStegen>* >>>>> On 25-Nov-14 10:27 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >>> OK, I don't mind. However, this pretty much invalidates the content of >> the current incubator. I am not sure what to do about that. Suggest them to >> export it to some non-Wikimedia wiki? >>>> -- >> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >> ‪“We're living in pieces, >> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ >>> 2014-11-25 21:12 GMT+02:00 Oliver Stegen &lt;info(a)oliverstegen.net>>>> Sorry to disagree but based on what my contact scholar for Tunisian >>> Arabic writes, I cannot approve this with a good conscience (see relevant >>> section of his message copied below). >>> Fwiw, >>> Oliver >>>>> "[...] it looks, despite the claims made on the website ("this project >>> is not against any language"), to be an almost anti-Arabic project, out of >>> tune with the wider population in choice of script, and even then showing >>> both inconsistencies in writing, and writing allophones according to how >>> the sound would be written in French. Even the style of Latin script is not >>> how Tunisians write when doing so in Latin script - there seems to be a nod >>> to Maltese, and I, even with an awareness of how Maltese works, had >>> difficulty in reading it in places. Also they seem to prefer technical >>> terms from French than (even commonly used) ones from Standard Arabic. >>> Chances of any of this being adopted... low. But thanks for the link!" >>>>>>> On 24-Nov-14 11:24 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >>>>> Reviving this, as I got a bit of new information. >>>>> See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T70207 . >>>>> (In case you didn't know, Wikimedia moved from Bugzilla to a new task >>> tracking tool called Phabricator, or Phab for short.) >>>>> See the last comment there. The guy introduces himself as "a group of >>> activists with some knowledge of Linguistics", and the website about their >>> work about the writing system is >>> https://sites.google.com/site/stundardtunsi/ >>>>> I am kinda inclined to approve that their work would be in the Latin >>> script. Despite using the free Google Sites platform, they appear to be >>> serious, and I cannot see anybody else picking this up. On the other hand, >>> I really don't want to make the final call. It probably won't be useful, at >>> least initially, to schoolchildren there. >>>>> So there - you have the facts. Any ideas? >>>>>>> -- >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>> ‪“We're living in pieces, >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ >>>>> 2014-08-07 10:55 GMT+03:00 Oliver Stegen &lt;info(a)oliverstegen.net>>>>>> Sorry for the delay in replying. >>>>>>> My colleague agrees that Tounsi / تونسي is the correct autonym of the >>>> Tunisian Arabic language (ISO: aeb). He considers the current name زَوُن to >>>> be "a made-up bit of fun". However, he does not believe that Latin script >>>> is more widespread or common but considers Arabic script to be the default >>>> of Tunisian Arabic (aeb): >>>>>>> "I think Arabic would be better, but it depends on the community (in >>>> country most writing now is in Arabic script, as it's easier than it was - >>>> a few years ago Latin script dominated in chatting, but only Arabic script >>>> in public uses in country)" >>>>>>> Just quoting - hope it helps. >>>> Oliver >>>>>>> On 29-Jul-14 7:26 PM, Oliver Stegen wrote: >>>>>>> Sorry, just saw this now. (I was offline for two weeks until Sunday.) >>>> I've asked a colleague of mine who is a linguist scholar of Tunisian >>>> Arabic - will keep you posted once I received his reply. >>>> Oliver >>>>>>> On 19-Jul-14 9:50 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> I wasn't quite sure about what to do with this bug: >>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68207 >>>>>>> The request is to correct the autonym of the Tunisian Arabic language >>>> (ISO: aeb) in our software, and to set French as its fallback. >>>>>>> I don't have much to add to what the bug report already says. I am >>>> not really opposed to the request, because the current name is probably >>>> wrong (I have not idea where did it come from), but I also don't really >>>> know whether the requested change is right. It kinda puts me in the >>>> position of giving a "seal of approval" to something that may some day >>>> become a standard and it's definitely not a decision that I want to make >>>> completely on my own. >>>>>>> Any other opinions? >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> -- >>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>>> ‪“We're living in pieces, >>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom-l mailing listLangcom-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom-l mailing listLangcom-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom-l mailing list >>>> Langcom-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom-l mailing listLangcom-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom-l mailing list >>> Langcom-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom-l mailing listLangcom-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom-l mailing list >> Langcom-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l >>> _______________________________________________ > Langcom-l mailing list > Langcom-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom-l