I think that's a good idea, Amir.


I must say, I'm not sure what to tell people working on second-and-subsequent projects about translating, other than (a) translate any remaining messages (because we've added some) or obsolete translations in "most-used" (because we've added some), (b) if your project  has specific extensions, work on those, and (c) otherwise just keep plugging away at "core". So if any of these groups are the "next" best to work on, I'd like to know that.


Steven


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Today's Topics:

   1. a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier (Amir E. Aharoni)
   2. Re: a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
      (Gerard Meijssen)
   3. Re: a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
      (Amir E. Aharoni)
   4. Two more miscellaneous items (Steven White)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:26:04 +0200
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
Message-ID:
        <CACtNa8vYeyvwnXcd3CkU4AvOTEjVRmqQL8skFg8crH46-8-gmg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.

In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.wikimedia.org%2FT190047&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=gUN95pIpAee3yr6OEK9FPmTrPH5pxqA7EzfTrpddOWc%3D&reserved=0
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.wikimedia.org%2FT167762&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=y%2FgFFR2qOcoqaQ%2FoYVynAD%2BWB6%2BmQnS2qb6qMGD9Ft4%3D&reserved=0

Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of translatable
messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups, so that the
rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and make them
work more slowly or give up.

Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
discussion ;)

In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
the Barcelona Hackathon in May.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wordpress.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=jNMIJNQ03FRKnmFTjpIzsQ0%2FZe0xxitSCqK8dTK6DlA%3D&reserved=0
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:31:25 +0100
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
Message-ID:
        <CAO53wxXNmb7Ty=Ffu6d4nnC7R0qDq_VV6dy-WhsAynf9r_E20Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hoi,
We currently want the "most used" messages to be localised. They are the
most visible messages but that does not mean that they are the most
important for understanding a user interface. When your work means that
those messages that ordinary readers and editors do not see or need are in
separate groups from the ones they do need, we have a situation where I
find that we no longer need the localisation of all messages and have a
potential replacement for the "most used" messages..
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 19 March 2018 at 15:26, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
> interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.
>
> In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.wikimedia.org%2FT190047&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=gUN95pIpAee3yr6OEK9FPmTrPH5pxqA7EzfTrpddOWc%3D&reserved=0
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.wikimedia.org%2FT167762&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=y%2FgFFR2qOcoqaQ%2FoYVynAD%2BWB6%2BmQnS2qb6qMGD9Ft4%3D&reserved=0
>
> Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of
> translatable messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups,
> so that the rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and
> make them work more slowly or give up.
>
> Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
> several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
> discussion ;)
>
> In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
> implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
> the Barcelona Hackathon in May.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wordpress.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=jNMIJNQ03FRKnmFTjpIzsQ0%2FZe0xxitSCqK8dTK6DlA%3D&reserved=0
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> _______________________________________________
> Langcom mailing list
> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wikimedia.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flangcom&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=U1MpKAeTNjWfbEnQiRvPpd8rINdJgUspKiIgY7pY5Po%3D&reserved=0
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>
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:35:55 +0200
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
        <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
Message-ID:
        <CACtNa8vO1kQ_ycNStLMsWheOWnr6RTeOiyvnXV4oa2HDCX-Q-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks for bringing this up. The composition of the "most used messages"
group is indeed an issue, but it's distinct. Very briefly, It's good that
it's data-driven, but it's a bit *too* data-driven, and it needs some
adjustment.

I have a plan to improve the "most used" group as well. This plan is mostly
in my head at the moment, but I'll document it in writing soon, hopefully
in the next few days.


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wordpress.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=jNMIJNQ03FRKnmFTjpIzsQ0%2FZe0xxitSCqK8dTK6DlA%3D&reserved=0
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2018-03-19 16:31 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> We currently want the "most used" messages to be localised. They are the
> most visible messages but that does not mean that they are the most
> important for understanding a user interface. When your work means that
> those messages that ordinary readers and editors do not see or need are in
> separate groups from the ones they do need, we have a situation where I
> find that we no longer need the localisation of all messages and have a
> potential replacement for the "most used" messages..
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 15:26, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
>> interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.
>>
>> In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.wikimedia.org%2FT190047&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=gUN95pIpAee3yr6OEK9FPmTrPH5pxqA7EzfTrpddOWc%3D&reserved=0
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.wikimedia.org%2FT167762&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=y%2FgFFR2qOcoqaQ%2FoYVynAD%2BWB6%2BmQnS2qb6qMGD9Ft4%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of
>> translatable messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups,
>> so that the rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and
>> make them work more slowly or give up.
>>
>> Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
>> several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
>> discussion ;)
>>
>> In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
>> implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
>> the Barcelona Hackathon in May.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wordpress.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=jNMIJNQ03FRKnmFTjpIzsQ0%2FZe0xxitSCqK8dTK6DlA%3D&reserved=0
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wikimedia.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flangcom&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=U1MpKAeTNjWfbEnQiRvPpd8rINdJgUspKiIgY7pY5Po%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Langcom mailing list
> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
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>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:27:02 +0000
From: Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com>
To: "langcom@lists.wikimedia.org" <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] Two more miscellaneous items
Message-ID:
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

1. Wiktionary Sri Lankan Creole Malay<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRequests_for_new_languages%2FWiktionary_Sri_Lanka_Malay&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=oStRDuqXeTkTNY74LVIF5ilBjD56gh2Nbaes%2FhEMNrs%3D&reserved=0> (langcode sci): Mostly an oral language; enwiki article describes attempts to write the language as "rare". Proposer never followed up, but was still active on enwiki as of two months ago. However, I have received no response on my inquiry to the proposer, so I am closing as "stale". Note: this is the final open non-Wikipedia request from 2011 or earlier.

2. Someone working on Wiktionary Kurdish (Sorani)<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRequests_for_new_languages%2FWiktionary_Sorani_Kurdish&data=02%7C01%7C%7C35ab8bfb0c3646e6e7c508d58dbea722%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636570772340219259&sdata=e5Q97HJh95Au7GpOO5rSB4bJw9UcYXfY%2B0MvDx8I%2FfA%3D&reserved=0> (request open since 2012) asked me if there was a problem with this request, since last month we marked the Wikinews request in that language eligible. I replied that there was not, and that I was simply working through the backlog in chronological order.  But since there are people working on this test now, I'm going ahead and marking it as eligible.


Steven


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End of Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 11
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