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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first
group) (Gerard Meijssen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 16:45:01 +0200
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:
<CAO53wxWL2eMiXd+6B0QfAZR0BGyz0ko1Rb5To6gxb7Ee+kKfpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hoi,
The point of eligibility is that when it is eligible it will mean that all
other requirements are fulfilled, a new project will start. This does not
apply in this situation. We do not tell Incubator what to do. We do tell
them that a project has a prospect or not for the creation of a full
project.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 13 June 2018 at 16:34, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Gerard, your opinion puts me into a difficult situation. The formal
> "Requests for new languages" page does not specifically request a
> Latin-alphabet project. It simply requests a project. The language has
> enough speakers to be eligible by policy. Unless somebody checks out the
> project and tells me that what is written is not Khorasani Turkic at all,
> the project has enough activity to be eligible by policy. And under normal
> circumstances it is not our role to tell a community in Incubator how to
> run its project.
>
>
> For these reasons, I don't really see a policy-based justification for not
> marking this request "eligible". The test is not so active that it will get
> anywhere near approvability any time soon. So I think for now, we have to
> mark it eligible. And if and when it comes up for approval, we can decide
> what to do at that point.
>
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook <
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>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Langcom <langcom-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of
> langcom-request@lists.wikimedia.org <langcom-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:15 AM
> *To:* langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> *Subject:* Langcom Digest, Vol 57, Issue 5
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first
> group) (Steven White)
> 2. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first
> group) (Gerard Meijssen)
> 3. Chinese (Gerard Meijssen)
> 4. Re: Chinese (Jon Harald Søby)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 15:21:54 +0000
> From: Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com>
> To: "langcom@lists.wikimedia.org" <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
> (first group)
> Message-ID:
> <BLUPR12MB06918710F000146977737EB59E7F0@BLUPR12MB0691.
> namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian"
> situation is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an
> active, solid project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this
> project has to work through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this
> happen. In the case of Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in
> this language. And the language is inherently eligible. So I think by
> policy I need to mark it eligible. By the time it comes to approve the
> project, if ever, one of the following will have happened:
>
> * Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people
> will have come along and changed the content to that script.
> * That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will
> make use of the project in Latin script.
> * Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a
> modus vivendi between the two while the test is still in Incubator.
>
> For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible".
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook<
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnam01.safelinks.protection.outlook&data=02%7C01%7C%7C292598d515f1463ef60308d5d13c53cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636644979383165980&sdata=IrmqRC6cmlTR6FqCleDYs0XelLJDNlUv%2BaF7AwAX9pc%3D&reserved=0.
> com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fweboutlook&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7C106a2fb40f1c436e626308d5d0fd7a66%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
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>
>
> ________________________________
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200
> From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
> (first group)
> Message-ID:
> <CAO53wxWRPL4TC8UpO3e1tFUe-bX0arSQEPRiU_MDw5B27RqZKg@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hoi,
> It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson <siorrai@evertype.com> wrote:
>
> > I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create
> > one.
> >
> > > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> > But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor
> > the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
> >
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 18:09:20 +0200
> From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
> (first group)
> Message-ID:
> <CAO53wxXFpfY-+FOVpeMPm=nZ1A9tUMWzr+9eU8PU5M0VbZHfew@mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hoi,
> You have not explained who this project is targetting. When the editors are
> the audience it fails on principles. I disagree that this is an eligible
> project.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 12 June 2018 at 17:21, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian"
> > situation is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an
> > active, solid project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this
> > project has to work through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this
> > happen. In the case of Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in
> > this language. And the language is inherently eligible. So I think by
> > policy I need to mark it eligible. By the time it comes to approve the
> > project, if ever, one of the following will have happened:
> >
> >
> > - Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people
> > will have come along and changed the content to that script.
> > - That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will
> > make use of the project in Latin script.
> > - Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a *
> > modus vivendi* between the two while the test is still in Incubator.
> >
> > For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible".
> >
> > Steven
> >
> >
> > Sent from Outlook <
https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fweboutlook&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7C106a2fb40f1c436e626308d5d0fd7a66%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636644709450280769&sdata=%2B6Re4HJQKCuiR2lhiKUosISNSvyCl
> y7vrLNm45Mg7iw%3D&reserved=0>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
>
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200
> > From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> > To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> > <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
> > (first group)
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAO53wxWRPL4TC8UpO3e1tFUe-bX0arSQEPRiU_MDw5B27RqZKg@
> > mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hoi,
> > It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson <siorrai@evertype.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to
> create
> > > one.
> > >
> > > > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> > > But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue
> nor
> > > the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Langcom mailing list
> > Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> >
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> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 18:41:17 +0200
> From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: [Langcom] Chinese
> Message-ID:
> <CAO53wxWsPPALRZazvW4ZEmMck70n3D=T8JQCQdozOHT_kVtQ7g@mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hoi,
> Chinese is special because the difference between the various flavours of
> Chinese are handled in software, not in translatewiki. It works for both
> the localisation and the text.
>
> A question was raised if the Language committee needs to provide permission
> for specific versions of Chinese eg Hong Kong or Singapore Chinese. It
> means that in code characters are replaced by others..
>
> In my opinion this is no different from having American, British,
> Australian articles in the English Wikipedia and consequently I think that
> we do not have to give our agreement.
>
> Do you all concur?
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:15:34 +0200
> From: Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Chinese
> Message-ID:
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> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> What is this in reference to?
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnam01.safelinks&data=02%7C01%7C%7C292598d515f1463ef60308d5d13c53cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636644979383165980&sdata=AUaOEovQyXUpnYKRXYDhddJGZXEZHGY%2FKUNKc0UWqSo%3D&reserved=0.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator.
> wikimedia.org%2FT193983&data=02%7C01%7C%7C106a2fb40f1c436e626308d5d0fd
> 7a66%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
> 7C636644709450280769&sdata=0oiMNuYBKn1clQYueV%
> 2BZfNwyZshkUk03BAgwRegbrFw%3D&reserved=0 ?
>
> 2018-06-12 18:41 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hoi,
> > Chinese is special because the difference between the various flavours of
> > Chinese are handled in software, not in translatewiki. It works for both
> > the localisation and the text.
> >
> > A question was raised if the Language committee needs to provide
> > permission for specific versions of Chinese eg Hong Kong or Singapore
> > Chinese. It means that in code characters are replaced by others..
> >
> > In my opinion this is no different from having American, British,
> > Australian articles in the English Wikipedia and consequently I think
> that
> > we do not have to give our agreement.
> >
> > Do you all concur?
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Langcom mailing list
> > Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
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