Gerard, your opinion puts me into a difficult situation. The formal "Requests for new languages" page does not specifically request a Latin-alphabet project. It simply requests a project. The language has enough speakers to be eligible by policy. Unless somebody checks out the project and tells me that what is written is not Khorasani Turkic at all, the project has enough activity to be eligible by policy. And under normal circumstances it is not our role to tell a community in Incubator how to run its project.
For these reasons, I don't really see a policy-based justification for not marking this request "eligible". The test is not so active that it will get anywhere near approvability any time soon. So I think for now, we have to mark it eligible. And if and when it comes up for approval, we can decide what to do at that point.
Steven
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first
group) (Steven White)
2. Re: Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017 (first
group) (Gerard Meijssen)
3. Chinese (Gerard Meijssen)
4. Re: Chinese (Jon Harald Søby)
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 15:21:54 +0000
From: Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com>
To: "langcom@lists.wikimedia.org" <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:
<BLUPR12MB06918710F000146977737EB59E7F0@BLUPR12MB0691. >namprd12.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian" situation is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an active, solid project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this project has to work through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this happen. In the case of Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in this language. And the language is inherently eligible. So I think by policy I need to mark it eligible. By the time it comes to approve the project, if ever, one of the following will have happened:
* Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people will have come along and changed the content to that script.
* That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will make use of the project in Latin script.
* Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a modus vivendi between the two while the test is still in Incubator.
For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible".
Steven
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:
<CAO53wxWRPL4TC8UpO3e1tFUe-bX0arSQEPRiU_MDw5B27RqZKg@ >mail.gmail.com
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Hoi,
It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson <siorrai@evertype.com> wrote:
> I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create
> one.
>
> > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor
> the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 18:09:20 +0200
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
(first group)
Message-ID:
<CAO53wxXFpfY-+FOVpeMPm=nZ1A9tUMWzr+9eU8PU5M0VbZHfew@mail. >gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hoi,
You have not explained who this project is targetting. When the editors are
the audience it fails on principles. I disagree that this is an eligible
project.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 12 June 2018 at 17:21, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think the difference between this case and the "Romanized Persian"
> situation is that in the "Romanized Persian" case, there is already an
> active, solid project in Persian. Thus, anyone wanting to create this
> project has to work through the Persian Wikipedia community to make this
> happen. In the case of Khorasani Turkic, there is nothing else created in
> this language. And the language is inherently eligible. So I think by
> policy I need to mark it eligible. By the time it comes to approve the
> project, if ever, one of the following will have happened:
>
>
> - Because the general script of the language is Perso-Arabic, people
> will have come along and changed the content to that script.
> - That doesn't happen, but there is evidence of a community that will
> make use of the project in Latin script.
> - Some combination of the above, where they will have worked out a *
> modus vivendi* between the two while the test is still in Incubator.
>
> For that reason, I'm not too worried about marking it "eligible".
>
> Steven
>
>
> Sent from Outlook <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= >http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms% 2Fweboutlook&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C106a2fb40f1c436e626308d5d0fd 7a66% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636644709450280769&sdata=% 2B6Re4HJQKCuiR2lhiKUosISNSvyCl y7vrLNm45Mg7iw%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> ------------------------------> https://nam01.safelinks.
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 20:29:52 +0200
> From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
> <langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia requests from the second half of 2017
> (first group)
> Message-ID:
> <CAO53wxWRPL4TC8UpO3e1tFUe-bX0arSQEPRiU_MDw5B27RqZKg@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hoi,
> It only makes sense to do so when there is a public. It is not a hobby.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 6 June 2018 at 19:37, Michael Everson <siorrai@evertype.com> wrote:
>
> > I have no objection to a Roman alphabet version of editors wish to create
> > one.
> >
> > > On 6 Jun 2018, at 16:17, Steven White <Koala19890@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Khorasani Turkic (kmz): In theory, the language ought to be eligible.
> > But the test is written in a Romanized form, which neither Ethnologue nor
> > the enwiki article shows as an ordinary variant. Thoughts?
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 18:41:17 +0200
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] Chinese
Message-ID:
<CAO53wxWsPPALRZazvW4ZEmMck70n3 D=T8JQCQdozOHT_kVtQ7g@mail. gmail.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hoi,
Chinese is special because the difference between the various flavours of
Chinese are handled in software, not in translatewiki. It works for both
the localisation and the text.
A question was raised if the Language committee needs to provide permission
for specific versions of Chinese eg Hong Kong or Singapore Chinese. It
means that in code characters are replaced by others..
In my opinion this is no different from having American, British,
Australian articles in the English Wikipedia and consequently I think that
we do not have to give our agreement.
Do you all concur?
Thanks,
GerardM
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 09:15:34 +0200
From: Jon Harald Søby <jhsoby@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Chinese
Message-ID:
<CAJLFb6UeRE5aYi=0nsXXgP0GiRCswudsV-51hSFnDR4aKKNyyQ@mail. >gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
What is this in reference to? https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= ?https%3A%2F%2Fphabricator. wikimedia.org%2FT193983&data= 02%7C01%7C% 7C106a2fb40f1c436e626308d5d0fd 7a66% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636644709450280769&sdata= 0oiMNuYBKn1clQYueV% 2BZfNwyZshkUk03BAgwRegbrFw%3D& reserved=0
2018-06-12 18:41 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>:
> Hoi,
> Chinese is special because the difference between the various flavours of
> Chinese are handled in software, not in translatewiki. It works for both
> the localisation and the text.
>
> A question was raised if the Language committee needs to provide
> permission for specific versions of Chinese eg Hong Kong or Singapore
> Chinese. It means that in code characters are replaced by others..
>
> In my opinion this is no different from having American, British,
> Australian articles in the English Wikipedia and consequently I think that
> we do not have to give our agreement.
>
> Do you all concur?
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
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>
>
--
mvh
Jon Harald Søby
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