Hi Charlotte,
Thanks. I see the hogtie page has reverted to the photo album approach again, although
at least we now have one clothed man to balance the five naked women. Progress!
If you've found the COM:SEX talk page archives in Commons, with the "big
poll", then you
probably understand why I have given up contributing there.
And you see, you actually talked about encyclopedic content in those deletion discussions
in Wikipedia. It's fascinating ... and so unprecedented as to make one pinch one's
cheek.
You really shouldn't have wasted these sources on the AfD page, but just revised the
article ... I think what you wrote in the AfD was already better sourced and more
comprehensive than the article itself. :))
Well, all I can say is that I would *like* to work in an encyclopedia that is home to
more
people like you. I agree that our policies and guidelines are a poor substitute for
maturity
and intelligence, and in some ways actually make things worse, by superimposing a
well-meaning but ultimately gamed and warped rule set on editors' behaviour that is
beginning to foster a cultish mindset -- cultish in the sense of a set of behavioural
standards that the average person in the street would consider totally alien.
You must assume good faith, for example, and are forbidden to express the view that
an editor's intentions might be anything other than well-meaning, and in support of
the
project. However, it's okay to call them "disruptive", or describe their
behaviour as
"troubling". That usually works to get them blocked. It also helps to point out
that they have
been "warned" before. If they have been "warned", if their behavior is
"troubling", and they
are now being "disruptive", then you can eliminate them. All the while assuming
good
faith, of course, and enjoying the entitlement to have others assume that you are acting
in
good faith, too. (And being able to report them if they assume otherwise.)
It's a funny place. I would love for you to stick around (and perhaps put all of those
sources
you cited in the AfD into that article), but I can see that you just don't fit in
right now. You'd
be like a fish out of water.
But joking aside, Wikipedia needs people like you if it is to become something more than
it is now. And even if you can't bear to enter the fray, secure in the knowledge that
you
are more qualified to contribute than people who have made 120,000 edits and can (and
do) operate Twinkle, Rollback and Huggle in their sleep, then it's at least jolly nice
to have
your input here. :)
Best,
Andreas
--- On Tue, 28/6/11, Charlotte J <ravinpa2(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Charlotte J <ravinpa2(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [Gendergap] Hello and a (small!) manifesto
To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
<gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Tuesday, 28 June, 2011, 21:04
Hi again, Andreas.
In February you'd responded to Fred as follows, concerning pornographic images in
Commons:
"I have given notice that I perceive there to be a problem on-Wiki many
times, and the reply has always been the same: Wikipedia is not censored.
The suggestion that our editorial judgment with respect to illustration
should reflect and be based on the judgment our sources exercise in that
regard has not gone down well. We are all agreed that when it comes to
text content, we must follow sources. When it comes to images, however, the
community claims the freedom to apply its own ("OR") standards, which
naturally reflect our skewed demographics."
Yes, after reading this thread I wandered through that hall of mirrors that discussions of
Sexual Content policies and guidelines constitute on Commons. As Batman might say,
"Holy Ontological Incoherence!!!"
You'd also responded to Fred and asked the list:
"On a different, but not completely unrelated issue, how do women editors feel
about illustrations like those used here (Warning - not safe for viewing at work):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogtie_bondage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukkake
In my experience, any attempt to argue for editorial restraint in illustrating
pages like this (e.g., using just *one* image, and leaving the rest to a Commons
link) runs into a [[WP:NOTCENSORED]] brickwall. Female editors (with one
exception I believe, who has run into this brickwall repeatedly to no effect,
and at some cost to herself) are rarely participants in such discussions."
Unless the "primary producers" of the "Hogtie bondage" photos obtained
and tagged them with all the data required by the Section 2257 regulations issued under
the Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act of 1988 before uploading them to
Commons, and Commons is storing that data and those tags along with the photos in order to
make them available to any would-be user, any such photos -- by Commons' own standards
-- should be speedily deleted (although from my review of the various archived and recent
Sexual Content discussions there, this might come as a terrible shock to all or most of
the Commons editors who've weighed in on those discussions).
Section 75.1(n) of the 2257 Regulations provides that "Sexually explicit conduct has
the meaning set forth in 18 U.S.C. 2256(2)(A)" (which -- unsurprisingly by now -- I
could find no evidence of any Commons editors having ever bothered to look up).
18 U.S.C. 2256(2)(A) provides:
(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B) [pertaining to child pornography], “sexually
explicit conduct” means actual or simulated—
(i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or
oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;
(ii) bestiality;
(iii) masturbation;
(iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person"
"Sadistic or masochistic abuse" traditionally means, in virtually all states of
the U.S.:
"...flagellation or torture by or upon a person who is nude or clad in undergarments,
a mask or bizarre costume, or the condition of being fettered, bound or otherwise
physically restrained on the part of one who is nude or so clothed."
http://law.justia.com/codes/idaho/2010/title18/t18ch15sect18-1514.html See, also, e.g.,
http://legis.state.sd.us/statutes/DisplayStatute.aspx?Type=Statute&Stat…
and
http://law.justia.com/codes/idaho/2010/title18/t18ch15sect18-1514.html
"Mask" is usually be deemed to include any kind of gag.
So, pausing a moment to review, it's highly likely that all or most of the photos on
that page would be subject to Section 2257 recordkeeping requirements by "primary
producers" (photographers, filmmakers, etc.) and "secondary producers" who
display, disseminate, etc., the photos for sale or "trade" (such as exchanging
photos with other aficionados). I suspect that the Wikimedia Foundation relies on the
educational institution exemption in order not to have to meet the Section 2257
recordkeeping or notice requirements, but if Commons doesn't require the submission
along with the upload of such photos (or videos) of all the required Section 2257
documentation, then it would be illegal for any would-be U.S. commercial "secondary
producer" to utilize any of them.
According to the Commons:Copyright tags page,
"All works hosted at the Commons must be legal to publish in the United States"
and
"The following copyright options are not acceptable at Commons. Images with these
tags will be deleted...
{{Noncommercial}} - Noncommercial copyright status. This image will have to be
deleted."
Although none of these Hogtie bondage photos may be marked "noncommercial," if
Commons cannot supply a would-be U.S. commercial secondary producer with all the data and
tags required to be supplied under Section 2257 by the primary producer and maintained by
both of them for U.S. government inspection, then those photos have effectively been
rendered "noncommercial use only" by operation of law.
I may weigh in further, later, as my schedule permits, on the sheer ontological
incoherence (not to mention ethical squalor and possible tortiousness) of seeking at most
only an "affirmation of consent" from "uploaders of self-produced sexual
content", as well as on the dubious legality of the bukkake image, but hopefully this
will give those on this list who share your concerns something to chew on in the
meantime.
And given that this email has focused on legal issues, I also need to include the
requisite disclaimer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: This email includes general legal information for discussion purposes only
which is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up-to-date, and does not, nor is it
intended to constitute, legal advice to any individual recipient (intended or unintended).
Receipt of this email (intended or unintended) does not create an attorney-client
relationship between the undersigned (who is no longer actively engaged in the practice of
law) and any such recipient. No one should act upon the information contained in this
email without seeking legal advice from their own attorney.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best,
Charlotte
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