And one think is discuss something - even when people have different opinion than yours, another completely different is play the "/poor me, nothing I do is good/" every time someone has a criticism against your work.

>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today

Sarah, I assume you're the list moderator? Then you should be able to decide who joins/stays on/posts on the list, and not have to resort to rants such at this one.

From, Emily On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Sarah Stierch &lt;sarah.stierch(a)gmail.com <mailto:sarah.stierch@gmail.com>> wrote: I know I'm going to regret this, but, I can't be quiet anymore. I apologize to this ENTIRE mailing list for this drama erupting, and I'm going to be sending gender gap-l into my "special file" until my heart rate goes down. If people want to talk to me, they can find me on IRC or in private email, today. --- Beria, you're passive aggressive bullying behavior has reached my level of tolerance. I was going to email you privately, but, I decided against that, as /you/ like to publicly share your feelings with the community, including specific people publicly. I have previously stated it, the last thing I wish to do is flood the list with things that are of no benefit or interest to the community. If me feeling bad about doing that is a bad then, so be it, I'm just sick and tired of you repeatedly reminding me of how I'm doing something wrong, and your declaration of "no one giving a fuck" about what you have to say because you aren't a fellow or you aren't a staff member is equally passive aggressive. I /worked/ my butt off for this fellowship, and a fellowship with WMF is something I have been exploring and trying to develop for almost two years now. I'm honored to have it, beyond words. Anyone can apply to be a fellow Beria, and passively declaring that no one cares about you because you aren't paid, is just a mean slap in the face of everyone who works hard at WMF and as volunteers. And remember, there are chapter people who get paid to do their jobs, also. And this isn't just about me - you've done it to a lot of people. People I consider friends and colleagues, and people I don't even know well. I'm tired of having to worry about the things I post on this list, Internal-L, and Foundation-L, being to your disapproval. I'm also tired of the "monthly wait for what Beria will say to someone that will cause drama on a mailing list" situation. While I'm sure others greatly appreciate your attitude, I don't, and others do not as well. Your behavior and bullying (which is defined here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullying) makes me have little to desire to participate in mailing list discussions, and even /less/ desire to even consider attending a conference that you are co-planning. Which is something, civility, we touch on here on this mailing list, as being a deterrent for people wanting to participate in projects. This isn't the first time that I've actively, /and/ publicly asked you to stop behaving like this. The goal of this list isn't to just "talk" about wanting to make changes, it's about making changes. Whether they are online, in any language project, or offline, through outreach, programming, edit-a-thons, and whatnot. I talk my talk and I walk my walk, and I know others here do too (and I try to share those projects when they are brought to my attention). And if me being "too sensitive" or me "caring too much" or "me being paid" is a deterrent to us moving the meter (aka closing the gap) then I guess I'm the worst representative for the gender gap movement. Beria - I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'm not going to ask you to ever like me, be my bestfriend, or make an exception. I just want you to stop bullying me, others, and learn how your words affects others before you type them. I can handle criticism, when it's constructive. Not when it's rude, insensitive, unprofessional and at times attacking. _and on another note, regarding language: _ I only share what I know, and sadly, I have a permanent off switch in my head that makes it tough for me to learn other languages (and no, Google Translate does not count as quality accessibility), so when I can only talk for English Wikipedia, I only post about English Wikipedia. We've never called this list an English only list, I encourage people to participate in all languages, so please, please please do. I apologize to everyone for making this a big freaking mess, but, I'm tired of this. Absolutely tired of it. Tired to the point where I have had trouble sleeping - I mean what the hell is that about? Sarah -- *Sarah Stierch* */Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/* today <http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=WMFJA085/en/US&utm_source=WMdonate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=20110130SB003&language=en&uselang=en&country=US&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwikimediafoundation.org%2Fwiki%2FHome><< _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today

I know I'm going to regret this, but, I can't be quiet anymore. I apologize to this ENTIRE mailing list for this drama erupting, and I'm going to be sending gender gap-l into my "special file" until my heart rate goes down. If people want to talk to me, they can find me on IRC or in private email, today. --- Beria, you're passive aggressive bullying behavior has reached my level of tolerance. I was going to email you privately, but, I decided against that, as you like to publicly share your feelings with the community, including specific people publicly. I have previously stated it, the last thing I wish to do is flood the list with things that are of no benefit or interest to the community. If me feeling bad about doing that is a bad then, so be it, I'm just sick and tired of you repeatedly reminding me of how I'm doing something wrong, and your declaration of "no one giving a fuck" about what you have to say because you aren't a fellow or you aren't a staff member is equally passive aggressive. I worked my butt off for this fellowship, and a fellowship with WMF is something I have been exploring and trying to develop for almost two years now. I'm honored to have it, beyond words. Anyone can apply to be a fellow Beria, and passively declaring that no one cares about you because you aren't paid, is just a mean slap in the face of everyone who works hard at WMF and as volunteers. And remember, there are chapter people who get paid to do their jobs, also. And this isn't just about me - you've done it to a lot of people. People I consider friends and colleagues, and people I don't even know well. I'm tired of having to worry about the things I post on this list, Internal-L, and Foundation-L, being to your disapproval. I'm also tired of the "monthly wait for what Beria will say to someone that will cause drama on a mailing list" situation. While I'm sure others greatly appreciate your attitude, I don't, and others do not as well. Your behavior and bullying (which is defined here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullying) makes me have little to desire to participate in mailing list discussions, and even less desire to even consider attending a conference that you are co-planning. Which is something, civility, we touch on here on this mailing list, as being a deterrent for people wanting to participate in projects. This isn't the first time that I've actively, and publicly asked you to stop behaving like this. The goal of this list isn't to just "talk" about wanting to make changes, it's about making changes. Whether they are online, in any language project, or offline, through outreach, programming, edit-a-thons, and whatnot. I talk my talk and I walk my walk, and I know others here do too (and I try to share those projects when they are brought to my attention). And if me being "too sensitive" or me "caring too much" or "me being paid" is a deterrent to us moving the meter (aka closing the gap) then I guess I'm the worst representative for the gender gap movement. Beria - I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'm not going to ask you to ever like me, be my bestfriend, or make an exception. I just want you to stop bullying me, others, and learn how your words affects others before you type them. I can handle criticism, when it's constructive. Not when it's rude, insensitive, unprofessional and at times attacking. and on another note, regarding language: I only share what I know, and sadly, I have a permanent off switch in my head that makes it tough for me to learn other languages (and no, Google Translate does not count as quality accessibility), so when I can only talk for English Wikipedia, I only post about English Wikipedia. We've never called this list an English only list, I encourage people to participate in all languages, so please, please please do. I apologize to everyone for making this a big freaking mess, but, I'm tired of this. Absolutely tired of it. Tired to the point where I have had trouble sleeping - I mean what the hell is that about? Sarah -- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

Sarah.... Seriously.... When it comes to bullying... There are several options as to how to answer it. One is blahblahblah. It takes your time, it takes our time, it takes its toll on the environment, and is bad on your health :) When there is no bodily harm involved, I'd say to do just as with trolling. Let it go. Do not answer. Do as if it did not exist. Have a drink and forget about it. Do not escalate. Close your mind. Do us the favor of thinking us able to filter out what is ridiculous and non sense from what is relevant and meaningful criticism. Beria is capable of both. Take the second and shut your mind from the first as most of us learnt to do ;) Flo Sent from my smartphone, wearing boxing gloves, so please, disregard any type mismatch. On Dec 26, 2011, at 17:41, Sarah Stierch &lt;sarah.stierch(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: And one think is discuss something - even when people have different opinion than yours, another completely different is play the "*poor me, nothing I do is good*" every time someone has a criticism against your work. I know I'm going to regret this, but, I can't be quiet anymore. I apologize to this ENTIRE mailing list for this drama erupting, and I'm going to be sending gender gap-l into my "special file" until my heart rate goes down. If people want to talk to me, they can find me on IRC or in private email, today. --- Beria, you're passive aggressive bullying behavior has reached my level of tolerance. I was going to email you privately, but, I decided against that, as *you* like to publicly share your feelings with the community, including specific people publicly. I have previously stated it, the last thing I wish to do is flood the list with things that are of no benefit or interest to the community. If me feeling bad about doing that is a bad then, so be it, I'm just sick and tired of you repeatedly reminding me of how I'm doing something wrong, and your declaration of "no one giving a fuck" about what you have to say because you aren't a fellow or you aren't a staff member is equally passive aggressive. I *worked* my butt off for this fellowship, and a fellowship with WMF is something I have been exploring and trying to develop for almost two years now. I'm honored to have it, beyond words. Anyone can apply to be a fellow Beria, and passively declaring that no one cares about you because you aren't paid, is just a mean slap in the face of everyone who works hard at WMF and as volunteers. And remember, there are chapter people who get paid to do their jobs, also. And this isn't just about me - you've done it to a lot of people. People I consider friends and colleagues, and people I don't even know well. I'm tired of having to worry about the things I post on this list, Internal-L, and Foundation-L, being to your disapproval. I'm also tired of the "monthly wait for what Beria will say to someone that will cause drama on a mailing list" situation. While I'm sure others greatly appreciate your attitude, I don't, and others do not as well. Your behavior and bullying (which is defined here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullying) makes me have little to desire to participate in mailing list discussions, and even *less* desire to even consider attending a conference that you are co-planning. Which is something, civility, we touch on here on this mailing list, as being a deterrent for people wanting to participate in projects. This isn't the first time that I've actively, *and* publicly asked you to stop behaving like this. The goal of this list isn't to just "talk" about wanting to make changes, it's about making changes. Whether they are online, in any language project, or offline, through outreach, programming, edit-a-thons, and whatnot. I talk my talk and I walk my walk, and I know others here do too (and I try to share those projects when they are brought to my attention). And if me being "too sensitive" or me "caring too much" or "me being paid" is a deterrent to us moving the meter (aka closing the gap) then I guess I'm the worst representative for the gender gap movement. Beria - I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'm not going to ask you to ever like me, be my bestfriend, or make an exception. I just want you to stop bullying me, others, and learn how your words affects others before you type them. I can handle criticism, when it's constructive. Not when it's rude, insensitive, unprofessional and at times attacking. *and on another note, regarding language: * I only share what I know, and sadly, I have a permanent off switch in my head that makes it tough for me to learn other languages (and no, Google Translate does not count as quality accessibility), so when I can only talk for English Wikipedia, I only post about English Wikipedia. We've never called this list an English only list, I encourage people to participate in all languages, so please, please please do. I apologize to everyone for making this a big freaking mess, but, I'm tired of this. Absolutely tired of it. Tired to the point where I have had trouble sleeping - I mean what the hell is that about? Sarah -- *Sarah Stierch* *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow* << _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

On 12/26/11 11:36 AM, Emily Monroe wrote: Good point, Florence, however, there is the issue of "You need to act like an adult, or make a halfway decent effort, to be here, and be unmoderated." You ignore kids sometimes when they behave badly to get attention. You can't always do that with an adult (or with kids, either). And then, like Sarah just said, sometimes even a decent leader gets fed up to the point of not being able to ignore bad behavior. Exactly. And it's tough - as the moderator, in which the negativity is being directed, I get a little paranoid about how far I can take my "power" (note the quotes, for sarcastic emphasis). For example, on English Wikipedia, from what I understand, if I was an admin and someone was un-civil towards me, *another* admin would have to deal with it. I wouldn't be allowed to deal with it. So I guess, that's why I haven't said "you're out of here." Or perhaps I just need some validation, or the co-moderator (Sue) or something. (And this relates to your previous question about me moderating others who are being disrespectful towards me.) I guess I'm failing at *being bold* here. Sarah -- *Sarah Stierch* *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow* << _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

Hi Erin. First we are - and we never - discussed "*Content that deals primarily with women is systematically underdeveloped throughout the projects*" what we did discussed here was 3 or 4 articles *from en.wiki* that Sarah thinks need to be remade. As far as I know, we have more than 700 projects... en.wiki can be the biggest, but is not the only one. And even if we changed all the articles in this language, would not do much for the other several million woman around the world. And we are trying to solve the gender gap in all the projects here, not only in en.wiki and not only in USA. So forgive me if I do believe that discuss 3 en.wiki articles will do nothing as far as gender gap solve is concerned. Might be good examples to someone when they are doing a presentation, but that is as far as this can go.

If the main problem here is the emphasis on English language solutions and the mention of problems with articles that only concern En.wikipedia, perhaps those speaking other languages could generate proposals on any relevant lists and then bring them here or to the relevant wikimedia pages or other forums or individuals, whatever/whoever they might be.