Hello,
Via Mike Godwin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?...
<snip>
“Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course.” To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science. “We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. “It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines.” </snip>
Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring person.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
"She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn't do, and that there were no good female mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Sarah
[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133...
On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
Hello,
Via Mike Godwin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?...
<snip>
"Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with," said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. "We realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course."
To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections --- "gold," for those with no prior experience, and "black" for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science.
"We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all about programming," said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. "It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines."
</snip>
Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring person.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Yes, a course for very, very unexperienced programers would be great.
And just to continue on that thread about pursuing your passion, I trust you have seen Sir Ken Robinson talk at TED?
http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
Med vänliga hälsningar,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400 From: sarah.stierch@gmail.com To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
“She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn’t do, and that there were no good female mathematicians,” Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't need to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading Unlocking the Clubhouse[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Sarah
[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133...
On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
Hello,
Via Mike Godwin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?...
<snip>
“Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course.”
To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science.
“We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. “It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines.”
</snip>
Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring person.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson,
Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05
Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se
Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal
Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se
_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
--
Sarah Stierch
Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
>>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today<<
_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Tangentially related story: http://raganwald.posterous.com/a-womans-story
Tom
On 3 April 2012 15:34, Lennart Guldbrandsson l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.comwrote:
Yes, a course for very, very unexperienced programers would be great.
And just to continue on that thread about pursuing your passion, I trust you have seen Sir Ken Robinson talk at TED?
http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
Med vänliga hälsningar,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400 From: sarah.stierch@gmail.com To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Giving Women the Access Code
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
“She was consistently told by teachers in adolescencehttp://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn’t do, and that there were no good female mathematicians,” Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't *need* to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading *Unlocking the Clubhouse*[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Sarah
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133...
On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
Hello,
Via Mike Godwin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?...
<snip>
“Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course.” To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science. “We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. “It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines.”
</snip>
Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring person.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibalhttp://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare%3aHannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sarah Stierch* *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate todayhttps://donate.wikimedia.org/
<<
_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Hi Sarah (and all),
On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400 Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
"She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn't do, and that there were no good female mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
The perpetuation of these stereotypes is often geographical, as in Israel, for example, many female high school students graduate with 5 points of maths, 5 points of physics, and other such "Realistic Sciences"-oriented subjects, and when my sister studied in the Technion ( http://www.technion.ac.il/ ), which was close to when I graduated, there were 30% of female students studying Computer Science there. That put aside, I studied Electrical Engineering (which in the Technion can easily end up as something close to what Americans know as Computer Engineering[1]), where only 10% of the students were female, and it's most likely due to a low percentage of female students who applied there.
In any case, there is no good reason to propagate these stereotypes, or for girls and women to feel intimidated from studying maths. Like you, I also feel that you don't need too much mathematics for most of the daily work involving programming, but it does crop up in various contexts in computer science. I wouldn't encourage completely getting rid of mathematics from the CS curriculums (or even from software engineering ones) because then we end up with a similar syndrome to what is described here:
We can still teach programming to people without a good knowledge of maths, and many children (or pre-teens or teenagers or whatever you wish to call them) have been studying programming before they even studied Algebra.
<footnotes> [1] - one should note that in the Technion, Computer Engineering is a combined Electrical Engineering/Computer Science specialisation, which is more demanding than either degree, so an Electrical Engineering proper graduate is not allowed to say he has a degree in Computer Engineering, but this is a different (and somewhat sad) story. </footnotes>
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Well, as a teenager, I planned on becoming a mathematician (I had somewhat different interests as a younger child). Then after high school I got a few jobs as a software developer, and decided to study something related. After a failed attempt at studying Mathematics and Computer Science in tau.ac.il (I freaked out completely, due to silly misconceptions), I worked for a few months in a different workplace and then started studying Electrical Engineering (like I said, more like what Americans call "Computer Engineering") there, while being more mentally prepared for that, and after a bumpy and eventful ride, graduated. Even in the Technion, there were several things I initially wanted to specialise in, which I didn't because they seemed too intimidating, counter-intuitive (at least for me) and/or difficult (I still have a trauma from Maxwell’s Equations).
I've contemplated getting a post-graduate degree, but I've been thinking of getting one in Linguistics instead of in something more technical. However, I'm a little afraid of needing to cram a lot of Latin and/or Greek vocabulary.
Regards,
Mr. Shlomi Fish (sorry for the brain-dump).
I just wanted to let you all know (can't remember if anyone has linked these) that Stanford is offering some free online courses, like a CS101 by Nick Parlante that is starting April 23:
https://www.coursera.org/course/cs101
"CS101 teaches the essential ideas of Computer Science for a zero-prior-experience audience. Computers can appear very complicated, but in reality, computers work within just a few, simple patterns. CS101 demystifies and brings those patterns to life, which is useful for anyone using computers today."
Best! Heather
Designer at the Wikimedia Foundation
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Shlomi Fish shlomif@shlomifish.org wrote:
Hi Sarah (and all),
On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:31:43 -0400 Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
"She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence <
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence...
, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn't do, and that there were no good female mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
The perpetuation of these stereotypes is often geographical, as in Israel, for example, many female high school students graduate with 5 points of maths, 5 points of physics, and other such "Realistic Sciences"-oriented subjects, and when my sister studied in the Technion ( http://www.technion.ac.il/ ), which was close to when I graduated, there were 30% of female students studying Computer Science there. That put aside, I studied Electrical Engineering (which in the Technion can easily end up as something close to what Americans know as Computer Engineering[1]), where only 10% of the students were female, and it's most likely due to a low percentage of female students who applied there.
In any case, there is no good reason to propagate these stereotypes, or for girls and women to feel intimidated from studying maths. Like you, I also feel that you don't need too much mathematics for most of the daily work involving programming, but it does crop up in various contexts in computer science. I wouldn't encourage completely getting rid of mathematics from the CS curriculums (or even from software engineering ones) because then we end up with a similar syndrome to what is described here:
We can still teach programming to people without a good knowledge of maths, and many children (or pre-teens or teenagers or whatever you wish to call them) have been studying programming before they even studied Algebra.
<footnotes> [1] - one should note that in the Technion, Computer Engineering is a combined Electrical Engineering/Computer Science specialisation, which is more demanding than either degree, so an Electrical Engineering proper graduate is not allowed to say he has a degree in Computer Engineering, but this is a different (and somewhat sad) story. </footnotes>
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Well, as a teenager, I planned on becoming a mathematician (I had somewhat different interests as a younger child). Then after high school I got a few jobs as a software developer, and decided to study something related. After a failed attempt at studying Mathematics and Computer Science in tau.ac.il(I freaked out completely, due to silly misconceptions), I worked for a few months in a different workplace and then started studying Electrical Engineering (like I said, more like what Americans call "Computer Engineering") there, while being more mentally prepared for that, and after a bumpy and eventful ride, graduated. Even in the Technion, there were several things I initially wanted to specialise in, which I didn't because they seemed too intimidating, counter-intuitive (at least for me) and/or difficult (I still have a trauma from Maxwell’s Equations).
I've contemplated getting a post-graduate degree, but I've been thinking of getting one in Linguistics instead of in something more technical. However, I'm a little afraid of needing to cram a lot of Latin and/or Greek vocabulary.
Regards,
Mr. Shlomi Fish (sorry for the brain-dump).--
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Escape from GNU Autohell - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/autohell/
*shlomif:* hack, hack, hack ; save ; make ; make test; commit. And start over.
*mrjink:*hack, hack, hack; save; make; swear; fix typos; save; make; make test; swear some more; hack some more; save; make; make test; cheer; commit.
*meep:* hack, make, test, segfault, oh noes, revert to previous revision
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
As someone who has worked as a computer programmer for 20 years and took several Calculus classes, I would like to vouch for the fact that in order to have a successful career in computer programming, it is necessary to have at least 4 years of math education - in elementary school.
I find it strange that biology, which is actually a fairly math intensive field, requires virtually no mathematics in college, while computer science requires absurd levels of math that have no relevance to the field. And yet classes that are extremely relevant, like How to Use UNIX, are optional. I think it has far more to do with the academic computer science culture than what is actually useful to teach people.
On a related note, I noticed recently that the English Wikipedia only has 2 paragraphs about women in mathematics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematician#Women_in_mathematics. Compare with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_engineering (which was recently expanded).
Ryan Kaldari
On 4/3/12 7:31 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
"She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/puberty-and-adolescence/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn't do, and that there were no good female mathematicians," Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't /need/ to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading /Unlocking the Clubhouse/[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Sarah
[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133...
On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
Hello,
Via Mike Godwin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?...
<snip>
"Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with," said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. "We realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course."
To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections --- "gold," for those with no prior experience, and "black" for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science.
"We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all about programming," said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. "It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines."
</snip>
Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring person.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sarah Stierch* */Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today
https://donate.wikimedia.org/<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Ryan,
I think I see the beginnings of a fantastic blog post about CS education in here. Nudge, nudge!
(Side note, it does seem to me that there is an angle of computer science that involves pretty intense levels of math -- but that would be more the theoretical, and maybe hardware design, areas. I wonder, do CS departments require lots of math in part out of a desire to establish themselves as "serious," and not merely a "trade program for programmers"? As a graduate of a pretty unusual school with a heavy theoretical/liberal arts bent, I think my perspectives on these things may be very skewed, so I'm very interested in what others think.)
-Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
As someone who has worked as a computer programmer for 20 years and took several Calculus classes, I would like to vouch for the fact that in order to have a successful career in computer programming, it is necessary to have at least 4 years of math education - in elementary school.
I find it strange that biology, which is actually a fairly math intensive field, requires virtually no mathematics in college, while computer science requires absurd levels of math that have no relevance to the field. And yet classes that are extremely relevant, like How to Use UNIX, are optional. I think it has far more to do with the academic computer science culture than what is actually useful to teach people.
On a related note, I noticed recently that the English Wikipedia only has 2 paragraphs about women in mathematics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematician#Women_in_mathematics. Compare with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_engineering (which was recently expanded).
Ryan Kaldari
On 4/3/12 7:31 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
Nice article, thanks for sharing Lennart!
“She was consistently told by teachers in adolescence, then later by colleagues, that the things she was interested in were things women didn’t do, and that there were no good female mathematicians,” Dr. Pippenger said.
It's reasoning like this, and the one that you quoted below about stereotypes, kept me from pursuing a degree in computer science. I remember looking into the school when I was a young undergrad and I felt so intimidated, and then was told that I'd have to take certain math classes. Which frustrated me, as I could do basic language coding and write html off the top of my head. I flunked the math classes I had to take, and 10 years later found out I had a math disability. (And it wasn't my parents who were telling me not to do it, it was professors, etc. Regardless of my poor math skills, almost every single person I know who codes jokes that "you don't need to know math." Someday I'll take some classes in something (just for fun, I suppose)..or perhaps there will be a "N00bs super simple MediaWiki fun day that even your grandma could learn to code at!" event.
I'm not disappointed with how my path curved and turned thus far, but, after reading Unlocking the Clubhouse[1] and every time I read an article like this, it just reminds me more and more of the experiences I had as a young person that kept me out of the lab. The odd thing, is that I ended up entering into a field that is upwards of 80% dominated by women. I wonder of computer science can take any cues from museum studies.
On that note, I'm sure I'm not the only person on this mailing list that took a different path than the one they wanted due to popular and personal pressure.
Sarah
[1]http://www.amazon.com/Unlocking-Clubhouse-Computing-Jane-Margolis/dp/0262133...
On 4/3/12 3:36 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote:
Hello,
Via Mike Godwin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/giving-women-the-access-code.html?...
<snip>
“Most of the female students were unwilling to go on in computer science because of the stereotypes they had grown up with,” said Zachary Dodds, a computer scientist at Mudd. “We realized we were helping perpetuate that by teaching such a standard course.”
To reduce the intimidation factor, the course was divided into two sections — “gold,” for those with no prior experience, and “black” for everyone else. Java, a notoriously opaque programming language, was replaced by a more accessible language called Python. And the focus of the course changed to computational approaches to solving problems across science.
“We realized that we needed to show students computer science is not all about programming,” said Ran Libeskind-Hadas, chairman of the department. “It has intellectual depth and connections to other disciplines.”
</snip>
Most of the article is about Dr Maria Klawe, who seems to be a very inspiring person.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com / lennart@wikimedia.se Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se http://www.1av3.se
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Pete Forsyth peteforsyth@gmail.com 503-383-9454 mobile