Oh, forgot. But creating this article might fall afoul of the meatpuppetry policy. Neotarf is blocked from English Wikipedia, from what I know.

Hence this post?

-Sarah

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:56 AM, JJ Marr jjmarr@gmail.com wrote:

You can make one, if you'd like. On Dec 22, 2014 1:43 PM, "Neotarf" neotarf@gmail.com wrote:

...

Samira Salih al-Nuaimi (Arabic: سميرة صالح النعيمي ) was kidnapped, tortured for 5 days, and publicly executed in the city of Mosul, after posting comments on Facebook that were critical of Islamic State (ISIL or ISIS) for their destruction of mosques and shrines. The U.N. reports a pattern of executions of women by the Islamic State, and states, “Educated, professional women seem to be particularly at risk.”

Italian Wikipedia has an article at: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samira_Saleh_al-Naimi

Press coverage:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/world/middleeast/womens-rights-activist-ex...

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-islamic-state-kill-lawyer...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/samira-nuaimi-killed_n_5880900.html

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/09/25/ISIS-kills-Iraqi...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/25/isis_executes_female_human...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-publicly-execute-le...

http://reliefweb.int/report/iraq/un-envoy-condemns-public-execution-human-ri...

http://translations.state.gov/st/english/texttrans/2014/09/20140926308964.ht...

Regards, Neotarf

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On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:

It does not fall afoul of the meatpuppetry policy if the creator writes the article independently and using their own wording to create an appropriate article based on their own understanding and referencing to reliable sources. For example, this one could fall into several topics: Women and ISIS, biography of individual (although you'd have to show she was notable for a reason other than her execution), ISIS executions, etc. etc.

Perhaps a stupid question but why is the coverage of her execution not enough for notability?

Thanks,

-Leigh

Is Samira Salih al-Nuaimi notable?

Just looking for an example of an article about someone notable for only one event, here is an article on the Death of Ian Tomlinson, a newspaper vendor who died during a London protest. Tomlinson's piece has been a featured article, and as far as I know, no one has ever challenged his notability.

Tomlinson article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson BLP policy--people notable for only one event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28people%29#People_notabl...

Al-Nuaimi seems to be much more notable than that. The UN and the US government have both issued official statements about al-Nuaimi's death. The UN statement calls her a "well-known human rights lawyer and activist". http://reliefweb.int/report/iraq/un-envoy-condemns-public-execution-human-ri...

This NZ piece has more detail about the statements issued by UN officials, apparently al-Nuaimi was running for office on the provincial council as well. There is more detail about two other female politicians killed or kidnapped, as well as five female political activists killed in Mosul, but no other names. http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/61509820/un-activist-publicly-execu...

And if you can get into some of the Arabic language sources, there is more nuance: you can see there were statements issued by two different UN officials, a statement issued by Prince Zeid Ra'ad Al Husssein, the High Commissioner for Human rights, in a statement issued by the UNHCR in Geneva and New York, and a statement by the Special Representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations in Iraq, Nikolay Mladenov. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.elaph...

A google search for her name in Arabic turns up 138,000 results. Although Google results numbers are highly inaccurate, you can see at a glance from the URL's, this is not just a local personality, it has been widely reported across the Arabic-speaking world. https://www.google.com/search?q=%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A9+%D8%B5%D8%A7%...

If you wanted to skirt the notability issue, you could always just do a quick translation of the Italian piece, basically there is just a template so you can credit the original sources. More information can be added to a translated piece later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation#How_to_translate

But I don't see how she is not notable. I daresay if someone created an article and it contained both a source, an internal link to another Wikipedia article, and a category, no one would challenge it. This is exactly the kind of information from the "global south" that the Foundation's official reports keep saying is lacking from Wikipedia, that they want to do something about.

Regards, Neotarf

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:

On 22 December 2014 at 15:34, Leigh Honeywell leigh@hypatia.ca wrote:

...

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:

...

It does not fall afoul of the meatpuppetry policy if the creator writes the article independently and using their own wording to create an appropriate article based on their own understanding and referencing to reliable sources. For example, this one could fall into several topics: Women and ISIS, biography of individual (although you'd have to show she was notable for a reason other than her execution), ISIS executions, etc. etc.

Perhaps a stupid question but why is the coverage of her execution not enough for notability?

ISIS is executing people by the tens of thousands (many for reasons that seem astonishingly petty to outsiders), so being executed by ISIS does not confer notability in and of itself.

What would confer notability would be reporting about her *before* her death, such as multiple significant references where she is a primary focus of a report about (for example) women human rights activists in her native country, or conferring of significant recognition such as a government or significant NGO human rights award. In other words, she needs to be notable *before* her death in order to cross the notability threshold. The BLP1E threshold still applies.

(For those of you unfamiliar with the acronym, that means that a person notable for only one event will not normally have a biographical article, although some of the information (including the name of the individual) may well be notable enough for inclusion in another article. Example: Names of victims of mass murderers - their names might be included in the article about the murderer. This is also known as the "Badlydrawnjeff" Arbcom decision.)

I've deliberately not been following the articles related to this topic in general, but I am quite certain, based on the significant reporting of this specific event and its contextualization in the media reports (particularly issues related to risks to educated women in Iraq), there's definitely a place for this information on Wikipedia, either in an article about the topic (identifying al-Nuaimi by name and event) or (if there is sufficient information) in an article about herself.

Risker/Anne

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With my mod hat on, Neotarf, please cease the "you could"'s here. Further hypotheticals will get you modded.

Thanks,

-Leigh

On Monday, December 22, 2014, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:

Is Samira Salih al-Nuaimi notable?

Just looking for an example of an article about someone notable for only one event, here is an article on the Death of Ian Tomlinson, a newspaper vendor who died during a London protest. Tomlinson's piece has been a featured article, and as far as I know, no one has ever challenged his notability.

Tomlinson article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson BLP policy--people notable for only one event:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28people%29#People_notabl...

Al-Nuaimi seems to be much more notable than that. The UN and the US government have both issued official statements about al-Nuaimi's death. The UN statement calls her a "well-known human rights lawyer and activist".

http://reliefweb.int/report/iraq/un-envoy-condemns-public-execution-human-ri...

This NZ piece has more detail about the statements issued by UN officials, apparently al-Nuaimi was running for office on the provincial council as well. There is more detail about two other female politicians killed or kidnapped, as well as five female political activists killed in Mosul, but no other names. http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/61509820/un-activist-publicly-execu...

And if you can get into some of the Arabic language sources, there is more nuance: you can see there were statements issued by two different UN officials, a statement issued by Prince Zeid Ra'ad Al Husssein, the High Commissioner for Human rights, in a statement issued by the UNHCR in Geneva and New York, and a statement by the Special Representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations in Iraq, Nikolay Mladenov.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.elaph...

A google search for her name in Arabic turns up 138,000 results. Although Google results numbers are highly inaccurate, you can see at a glance from the URL's, this is not just a local personality, it has been widely reported across the Arabic-speaking world.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A9+%D8%B5%D8%A7%...

If you wanted to skirt the notability issue, you could always just do a quick translation of the Italian piece, basically there is just a template so you can credit the original sources. More information can be added to a translated piece later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation#How_to_translate

But I don't see how she is not notable. I daresay if someone created an article and it contained both a source, an internal link to another Wikipedia article, and a category, no one would challenge it. This is exactly the kind of information from the "global south" that the Foundation's official reports keep saying is lacking from Wikipedia, that they want to do something about.

Regards, Neotarf

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','risker.wp@gmail.com');> wrote:

...

On 22 December 2014 at 15:34, Leigh Honeywell <leigh@hypatia.ca javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','leigh@hypatia.ca');> wrote:

...

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','risker.wp@gmail.com');> wrote:

...

It does not fall afoul of the meatpuppetry policy if the creator writes the article independently and using their own wording to create an appropriate article based on their own understanding and referencing to reliable sources. For example, this one could fall into several topics: Women and ISIS, biography of individual (although you'd have to show she was notable for a reason other than her execution), ISIS executions, etc. etc.

Perhaps a stupid question but why is the coverage of her execution not enough for notability?

ISIS is executing people by the tens of thousands (many for reasons that seem astonishingly petty to outsiders), so being executed by ISIS does not confer notability in and of itself.

What would confer notability would be reporting about her *before* her death, such as multiple significant references where she is a primary focus of a report about (for example) women human rights activists in her native country, or conferring of significant recognition such as a government or significant NGO human rights award. In other words, she needs to be notable *before* her death in order to cross the notability threshold. The BLP1E threshold still applies.

(For those of you unfamiliar with the acronym, that means that a person notable for only one event will not normally have a biographical article, although some of the information (including the name of the individual) may well be notable enough for inclusion in another article. Example: Names of victims of mass murderers - their names might be included in the article about the murderer. This is also known as the "Badlydrawnjeff" Arbcom decision.)

I've deliberately not been following the articles related to this topic in general, but I am quite certain, based on the significant reporting of this specific event and its contextualization in the media reports (particularly issues related to risks to educated women in Iraq), there's definitely a place for this information on Wikipedia, either in an article about the topic (identifying al-Nuaimi by name and event) or (if there is sufficient information) in an article about herself.

Risker/Anne

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it's the kind of other stuff exist argument that goes on all the time during deletion discussion, (that may not be appropriate here)

a better example might be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Weinstein

"If the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial and well-documented—as in the case of John Hinckley, Jr., who shot President Ronald Reagan in 1981—a separate biography may be appropriate. The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources."

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Honeywell leigh@hypatia.ca wrote:

...

With my mod hat on, Neotarf, please cease the "you could"'s here. Further hypotheticals will get you modded.

Thanks,

-Leigh

What about Neotarf's post, which you quoted, would merit moderation and under what principle? It seemed perfectly civil and constructive to me, even if Neotarf does miss the point a bit as Risker noted.

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On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:

http://www.examiner.com/article/wikipedia-biographies-favor-men

http://www.examiner.com/article/jimmy-wales-shows-favoritism-on-wikipedia hmmm, interesting.... but dated...

http://www.examiner.com/article/number-of-women-going-down-on-wikipedia

Merry Solstice! See my video - http://merrysolstice.com

Carol, are you familiar with that author and his history with the projects? He's not exactly an objective journalist (or a journalist of any kind, actually).

Please avoid using Examiner articles. Unreliable sources...it's user created content like Wikipedia.

And what Nathan said. Please tread lightly. (From personal experience!!)

Sarah On Dec 24, 2014 8:22 AM, "Nathan" nawrich@gmail.com wrote:

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Carol Moore dc <carolmooredc@verizon.net

...

wrote:

http://www.examiner.com/article/wikipedia-biographies-favor-men

http://www.examiner.com/article/jimmy-wales-shows-favoritism-on-wikipedia hmmm, interesting.... but dated...

http://www.examiner.com/article/number-of-women-going-down-on-wikipedia

Merry Solstice! See my video - http://merrysolstice.com

Carol, are you familiar with that author and his history with the projects? He's not exactly an objective journalist (or a journalist of any kind, actually).

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That was a "death of" article. I suspect there are articles that cover ISIS killing people, if they had only killed one person it might well be titled "death of". Since they seem keen to torture enslave or murder anyone who doesn't share their brand of Sunni Islam it would stretch our notability criteria to create separate articles for each of their victims. Similarly our 4.6 million articles only include individual articles for a small minority of the 13 million killed in the Nazi's murder programs.

Regards

Jonathan Cardy

On 23 Dec 2014, at 05:45, Neotarf neotarf@gmail.com wrote:

Is Samira Salih al-Nuaimi notable?

Just looking for an example of an article about someone notable for only one event, here is an article on the Death of Ian Tomlinson, a newspaper vendor who died during a London protest. Tomlinson's piece has been a featured article, and as far as I know, no one has ever challenged his notability.

Tomlinson article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson BLP policy--people notable for only one event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28people%29#People_notabl...

Al-Nuaimi seems to be much more notable than that. The UN and the US government have both issued official statements about al-Nuaimi's death. The UN statement calls her a "well-known human rights lawyer and activist". http://reliefweb.int/report/iraq/un-envoy-condemns-public-execution-human-ri...

This NZ piece has more detail about the statements issued by UN officials, apparently al-Nuaimi was running for office on the provincial council as well. There is more detail about two other female politicians killed or kidnapped, as well as five female political activists killed in Mosul, but no other names. http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/61509820/un-activist-publicly-execu...

And if you can get into some of the Arabic language sources, there is more nuance: you can see there were statements issued by two different UN officials, a statement issued by Prince Zeid Ra'ad Al Husssein, the High Commissioner for Human rights, in a statement issued by the UNHCR in Geneva and New York, and a statement by the Special Representative of the Secretary-General of the United Nations in Iraq, Nikolay Mladenov. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.elaph...

A google search for her name in Arabic turns up 138,000 results. Although Google results numbers are highly inaccurate, you can see at a glance from the URL's, this is not just a local personality, it has been widely reported across the Arabic-speaking world. https://www.google.com/search?q=%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B1%D8%A9+%D8%B5%D8%A7%...

If you wanted to skirt the notability issue, you could always just do a quick translation of the Italian piece, basically there is just a template so you can credit the original sources. More information can be added to a translated piece later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation#How_to_translate

But I don't see how she is not notable. I daresay if someone created an article and it contained both a source, an internal link to another Wikipedia article, and a category, no one would challenge it. This is exactly the kind of information from the "global south" that the Foundation's official reports keep saying is lacking from Wikipedia, that they want to do something about.

Regards, Neotarf

...

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 22 December 2014 at 15:34, Leigh Honeywell leigh@hypatia.ca wrote:

...

On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote: It does not fall afoul of the meatpuppetry policy if the creator writes the article independently and using their own wording to create an appropriate article based on their own understanding and referencing to reliable sources. For example, this one could fall into several topics: Women and ISIS, biography of individual (although you'd have to show she was notable for a reason other than her execution), ISIS executions, etc. etc.

Perhaps a stupid question but why is the coverage of her execution not enough for notability?

ISIS is executing people by the tens of thousands (many for reasons that seem astonishingly petty to outsiders), so being executed by ISIS does not confer notability in and of itself.

What would confer notability would be reporting about her *before* her death, such as multiple significant references where she is a primary focus of a report about (for example) women human rights activists in her native country, or conferring of significant recognition such as a government or significant NGO human rights award. In other words, she needs to be notable *before* her death in order to cross the notability threshold. The BLP1E threshold still applies.

(For those of you unfamiliar with the acronym, that means that a person notable for only one event will not normally have a biographical article, although some of the information (including the name of the individual) may well be notable enough for inclusion in another article. Example: Names of victims of mass murderers - their names might be included in the article about the murderer. This is also known as the "Badlydrawnjeff" Arbcom decision.)

I've deliberately not been following the articles related to this topic in general, but I am quite certain, based on the significant reporting of this specific event and its contextualization in the media reports (particularly issues related to risks to educated women in Iraq), there's definitely a place for this information on Wikipedia, either in an article about the topic (identifying al-Nuaimi by name and event) or (if there is sufficient information) in an article about herself.

Risker/Anne

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Nice catch, CM, but I still don't see her coming up in google. Whenever I have written an article, it has always come up in a google search by the next day, and has gotten on the first page of the search within 2 or 3 days, no matter how remote the location I wrote it from.

I truly believe that public information about these situations can save lives. Look at the international attention that Hamza Kashgari got after he was arrested for Twitter; he's out of jail now. Manal al-Sharif is out of jail too, (for driving while female) after a Women2Drive Facebook campaign. But Loujain al-Hathloul and Maysa al-Amoudi have now been in jail for over 40 days (driving). And now Raif Badawi. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/15/raif-badawi-saudi-blogger-flogging_... I see his lawyer, Waleed Abul-Khair, has now been disappeared as well. Waleed also has his own Wikipedia article. I've probably written about an equal number of articles for men as women human rights activists, but it seems the articles about women are challenged more often, and have fewer people looking for additional information, and in other languages, to show they are notable, etc.

World opinion does matter, but if someone doesn't even come up on a google search, what's the point of an article.

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Carol Moore dc carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:

On 12/23/2014 6:52 AM, WereSpielChequers wrote:

That was a "death of" article. I suspect there are articles that cover ISIS killing people, if they had only killed one person it might well be titled "death of". Since they seem keen to torture enslave or murder anyone who doesn't share their brand of Sunni Islam it would stretch our notability criteria to create separate articles for each of their victims. Similarly our 4.6 million articles only include individual articles for a small minority of the 13 million killed in the Nazi's murder programs.

Regards

Jonathan Cardy

I don't see an AfD notice, or notice it survived AfD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samira_Saleh_Ali_al-Naimi

FYI relevant categories:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&... List of categories with "people killed by" articles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_killed_by_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_victims_of_Nazism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant_... includes various relevant categories CM

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