(Sorry, I did not mean to start a new thread. I was trying to respond to an existing thread,  and don't know how to format the subject header to do this (wish there were instructions)). This is my last post to this thread, and I'll talk more about that at the bottom of the message. We do expect our admins to be fair-minded, and on most subjects they are. However, we  also expect our admins to be 18-to-28 year old childless single males with a particular mindset. They are only human, and I am not decrying this this, simply noting it. Obviously, most of the problem here with admins and most editors is of the "But what's wrong with the pinup calender, I just can't understand your objection, please explain it again  for the five hundredth time so I can decide if your being insulted is valid" variety. But that's not true of every single editor. Oliver, I am not insinuating anything. I am stating something clearly. I work with these editors very regularly and have for a while. It is very difficult work. I loathe it  and often dread sitting down at the keyboard. I very very much prefer doing translations and  other work like that. However, if you volunteer to work in the soup kitchen you also have to scrub the pots. I know more about this particular narrow subject than probably anyone. It is hard gained knowledge. I know what am talking about. So I don't appreciate the abuse, although I am quite used to it and expect it. These people - a few editors, but not that few - are very dedicated. Dedication is admirable,  depending on what you are dedicated to. Motivations vary between and even within individuals and are tricky to discern and characterize. I'll just say that these people are not National Organization for Women members and leave it at that. I don't offer a solution because I don't have one. Oliver, I do not appreciate your going into combat stance and also putting me in this position. I didn't start this thread, did not name it HELP, and make no claim for aid on my own behalf. I was pointing out a a couple of people who might be in for a difficult experience  and might appreciate a friendly face. (Actually, the folks I am talking about may have gone to ground for awhile. But they'll be back when you all have moved on.) Finally Oliver, Fred, and some others  - and I'll include myself - not as a matter of being male, but as a matter of being clueless and insensitive - would it be asking too much for you to back off and give the sisters some space? I have a talk page on the English Wikipedia and am willing to engage there with other males in in combative tests of verbal jousting skill. Not posting to this thread again, suggest some others might consider that also.