You're mistaken, Neotarf. There is no non-disparagement agreement, and arbitrators have never been required to sign one or even offered the opportunity to sign one, nor have functionaries or anyone else. There is a confidentiality agreement that refers to private and confidential information, which volunteers who have access to such information are required to sign.[1] These are two very different things. I am not suggesting that discussion be suppressed - I am insisting that you "show us the money" - give us some evidence that what you are saying is true. If you can't do that....then you're just gossiping, and that's not what this list is about.

You are trying to persuade this list that articles in respected journals about policies of companies that have nothing to do with Wikipedia or Wikimedia are somehow or other related to some rumour you have heard that women are being forced to sign non-whatever agreements in order to edit Wikipedia - a rumour which you have bluntly refused to back up.

At this stage, your allegation that anyone is required to post their real name, identify their COI, and sign non-disparagement agreements in order to edit wikipedia is...well, factless, until you can show us some facts.

Risker/Anne

[1] List of people who have current and valid confidentiality agreements: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_information_policy/Noticeboard

On 7 August 2017 at 14:11, Neotarf <neotarf@gmail.com> wrote:

So we have two former arbitrators on this list, one of whom has offered to assist in evaluating this thing privately, and who has himself signed such a non-disparagement agreement, and another who wants to suppress all discussion of it. We don't know if she has signed such an agreement.

Publications like the New York Times and Washington Post do print and evaluate information without naming sources, and it is true they are sometimes called "fake news" on Twitter, but does not make the information "factless", or prevent Wikipedia from consider them to be RS.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> wrote:
So, in other words, you have no evidence at all, except for some gossip, that *anyone* is being required to sign NDAs in order to edit Wikipedia. You have some information that suggests other organizations, completely separate from Wikipedia,

It's bad enough that women do, indeed, face greater sexual harassment both societally and on Wikimedia projects, something that is quantified in various ways even if there is some question about the accuracy of that quantification. Sesnsationalistic statements such as yours, without any evidence at all, have a very significant negative impact on the ability to fight such harassment, especially when they seem so absurd. Simply put, it's factless allegation, or what certain sectors of the American public have come to term "fake news". Please retract your statement.

Risker/Anne

On 7 August 2017 at 08:21, Neotarf <neotarf@gmail.com> wrote:
I have no way of investigating something I was not supposed to find out about in the first place. Given Wikipedia's culture of retaliation against anyone who speaks out, I am unlikely to find out more, but it did seem credible. These agreements are becoming more common, for instance here a female employee wanted to get out of her non-disparagement agreement but Angel List said no. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/technology/silicon-valley-sexual-harassment-non-disparagement-agreements.html Also the internal Google gender manifesto that was just leaked "Until about a week ago, you would have heard very little from me publicly about this, because (as a fairly senior Googler) my job would have been to deal with it internally, and confidentiality rules would have prevented me from saying much in public.But as it happens, (although this wasn’t the way I was planning on announcing it) I actually recently left Google..." https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:16 AM, Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6 August 2017 at 23:08, Neotarf <neotarf@gmail.com> wrote:
......

Women who do not want to interact on these terms, with individuals who are quite probably minors, are being silenced. I have heard that professional women are being recruited for Wikipedia, women whose employers would ordinarily be expected to protect them from a 'hostile work place', but they are being required to post their real identities on their talk pages, along with the names of their employers. and a COI form statement. They are also required to sign a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from revealing any harassment they experience in Wikipedia, or from even revealing they have been required to sign an NDA. These women will join Wikipedia, and listen to the pitch and eat the bagels, and Wikipedia gets to count them as female editors, but very few of them go on to make that second edit, because it's their professional reputation on the line.

If Wikipedia wants women editors they are going to have to come to terms with this.

This is a very inflammatory thing to say, Neotarf, and I need to insist that you show some proof of this. Links to discussions or requirements, please. This is far too sensationalistic to allow it to sit here without serious evidence.

Risker/Anne

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