After thought: Crimestoppers in the UK is anonymous, which would make https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_legal_threats unenforceable, https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-information/give-information-online/

Marie


From: eiryel@hotmail.com
To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 03:48:55 +0000
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] press coverage of Gamergate arbcom case

I don't know of a case of hate speech under UK law that has been brought by a non-UK resident. Looking online tends to push you towards information regarding extradition, but that's not really what we are talking about.

This week laws against revenge porn came into force within the UK with a potential sentence of two years. Since revenge porn is mostly committed online then I would have said yes, if the perpetrator is a UK citizen, acting online within the UK against someone abroad then I would have thought they could be prosecuted by the UK.

This is an article in The Independent about the new law coming into force, the last paragraph seems to hint that that would be the case: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/revenge-porn-criminalised-what-is-it-and-what-are-the-consequences-10042291.html "The apparent leaking of nude images of celebrities including Jennifer Lawrence and Kate Upton, who had their private accounts hacked and which thrust the issue into the limelight, would also be classified as revenge porn."

A couple of other points to note, does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_legal_threats refer to criminal as well as civil law? The UK has no such thing as District Attorneys or pre-trial hearings, preliminary hearing etc., so I get lost around US law. Cases in the UK are brought by the police and then the file is passed to the Crown Prosection Service. The CPS the decides whether to go ahead, it bases that decision on (a) is there enough evidence for there to be a reasonable chance of conviction, and (b) is the case in the public interest.

I heard about a case some years ago where three men went out for the night, two of them got into a physical scrap in he middle of the street which became quite violent. The third man made a few attempts to break up the fight. Eventually they cooled off and all three went home. No crime was reported, there was no threat of legal action by any of the parties, but the whole thing had been caught on CCTV. The police arrested the two men and the one of them was jailed for attempted murder.

If a concerned member of the public, not necessarily an editor, brought hate speech by a British editor to the attention of the police in the UK, then the police might arrest that editor and the Crown Prosection Service could bring charges using the evidence which is available online. As far as I know it would not require any action or any threat of action on the part of the other editor concerned.

Marie


Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 21:22:35 +0000
From: jayen466@gmail.com
To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] press coverage of Gamergate arbcom case

David Auerbach in Slate on "The Wikipedia Ouroboros":


On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:40 PM, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Marie,

Surely this would cover more than just examples where both parties were in the UK? For example if the victim was anywhere in the world but the offender was in the UK, wouldn't the UK law apply?



Regards

Jonathan Cardy


On 30 Jan 2015, at 16:46, Marie Earley <eiryel@hotmail.com> wrote:

There is something I thought I should mention as a UK member of this list.

Hate speech (including online) is illegal in the UK.

When the Bank of England announced that Elizabeth Fry would be dropped from the new 5 notes and replaced with Winston Churchill, it meant that there would be no women on sterling bank notes (apart from the Queen).

Caroline Criado-Perez successfully campaigned for Jane Austin to be added to 10 notes and received threats of rape and death. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10207231/Woman-who-campaigned-for-Jane-Austen-bank-note-receives-Twitter-death-threats.html

That instigated an online campaign which resulted in Twitter adding its 'report' button.

Isabella Sorley, 23, of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, tweets included: "die you worthless piece of crap", "go kill yourself" and, "I've only just got out of prison and would happily do more time to see you berried!!"

John Nimmo, 25, of South Shields, made references to rape and added: "I will find you (smiley face)".

Sorley was sentenced to 12 weeks in prison, and Nimmo was jailed for 8 weeks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25886026

The law they broke was Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127

If UK-based Wikipedian 'X' breaches s.127 of the Comms. Act due to something they said on Wikipedia about UK-based Wikipedian 'Y' then they face criminal prosecution and possibly jail.

The litmus test is whether what they have said is not only 'offensive' but, 'grossly offensive'. Wikipedia's internal systems and thresholds would make no difference to the authorities in the UK. It would be interesting to see what the public fall-out would be if Wikipedia decided that no action should be taken against X whilst the UK jailed him / her.

Marie



Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:41:36 -0500
From: neotarf@gmail.com
To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] press coverage of Gamergate arbcom case

Double standard.  Where are all the usual voices protesting about "civility police"?  Where are all the arbitrators opining that they cannot set objective standards for language?

Beeblebrox used to have an article about "fuck off" in his user space.  It didn't get him banned. In fact, he went on to become an administrator and arbitrator.

In the absence of objective standards, subjective standards are emerging, based on gender.  Using the f-word, or even criticizing male users, is becoming a male privilege on en.wp.  Anyone else who uses the word is "hostile" and exhibiting "battleground behavior". I must also say I am very disappointed in GorillaWarfare's role here.

Maybe, just maybe, instead of just dismissing anything that is said by a woman editor, the arbitration committee should investigate it. I am looking in particular at this one https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&diff=prev&oldid=631322169 If it is true, there are a huge number of users recruited on external sites, who are not there to build an encyclopedia, that will have huge implications for the survival of women editors on Wikipedia. The arbitration committee is looking at WP:SPA, they should look at WP:MEAT. And they should pay attention to who the ringleaders are, not just the throwaway accounts.  https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women&diff=next&oldid=10928257 https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women&diff=10938964&oldid=10936831 https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women&diff=10952260&oldid=10951344 https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women&diff=10991140&oldid=10979378 

But, as has been pointed out on the current RFC, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#RfC:_should_the_policy_extend_harassment_to_include_posting_ANY_other_accounts_on_ANY_other_websites.3F that would change the WP:OUTING policy to prohibit all mention of outside accounts, including Reddit Men's Rights and Reddit Gamergate, "trying to address the issues without being able to talk openly about the evidence is difficult".


On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Marie Earley <eiryel@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't know a lot about this case, but taking a cursory look at the diffs...

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gamergate_controversy&diff=prev&oldid=628547686

...presumably an "excessive edit" is a derogatrory way of saying "a single large edit". In which case I would probably have said the same as this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gamergate_controversy&diff=prev&oldid=628548723

To be feminist or to not be feminist...

I once read about a mother who went into a toy shop with her little girl. She was walking towards the check-out with a toy fire truck and some Lego when she was stopped by a member of staff who pointed out that the store had dolls. The mother said that her daughter didn't like dolls, that she likes trucks. She was about to move off again when the staff member pointed out that the store sold pastel Lego (as opposed to the primary coloured bucket of Lego that she had picked up). I'm sure she didn't think of herself as a feminist until that moment.

I find that most people who join feminist groups / gender gap mailing list etc. never thought of themselves as feminists until they had a "Lego moment".

My Lego moment was reading this article: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/fashion-news/the-wag-wannabes-949827 about a 19 year-old who was hoping to become the wife or girlfriend of a footballer (soccer player).
>"The lifestyle is amazing. Nice house, expensive cars. Wherever footballers go they are recognised and
>have people looking up to them. They know they can be with anyone - it's a privilege when they pick you."

Marie


> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:24:12 -0500
> From: carolmooredc@verizon.net
> To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] press coverage of Gamergate arbcom case
>
> On 1/25/2015 6:17 PM, Nathan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the lesson it sends is that a righteous cause is not a defense
> > against accusations of disruption, nor a license to violate other
> > policies. I'm sure that among the restricted people are those with
> > positions I'd support along with many others, but that doesn't put
> > their behavior above reproach. Tony Sidaway was hardly the paragon of
> > a calm and thoughtful administrator - insightful as he often was,
> > there was a reason he was fired as a clerk and barred from simply
> > requesting his bit back.
> The problem being that ArbCom is so political that most members see
> editors they dislike/disagree with on issues/content as disruptive even
> if their disruption is minor compared to that of the editors they feel
> more sympatico with. And of course if the "community" (i.e., gangs of
> editors who are allies) decide to target someone it's just easier
> politically to sanction those persons than not. And if they have a lot
> of supporters it is safer NOT to sanction them.
>
> This issue was very clear in GGTF arbitration where a few people were
> targeted by most posters, over and over for the same issues, at least
> til the end when an Arbitrator added a couple more needing sanctions.
> It's less clear in Gamergate because there are more participants being
> targeted by many more participants on many different issues.
>
> CM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap


_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap


_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap

_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap