On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:56 AM, ChaoticFluffy
<chaoticfluffy@gmail.com> wrote:
another user a woman. It was that, when told they WERE a woman, the user said that "THAT clarifies it" and then, when told that that was a bit snarky, clarified that what he meant was "they can't be a woman, women don't act like that." It's the "women don't act like that" part that I (and apparently I alone?) find problematic. Think about hearing that statement if you were, say, a M2F transsexual, who has been rejected by people before for not being a "real" woman. And now someone comes along and says that since you don't act in a manner they approve of, you're not a woman? That's one more rejection, one more invalidation, of you as a person.
Thank you for sharing the "other" part of the issue (what a pun!) - the "women don't act like that." It's insulting, hurtful and and is more so for people with gender dysphoria or who are going through gender "evolutions" if you will.. My entire life I've been told women don't do the things I do ("you're a DJ? and a woman?") and it makes you look at yourself and question who you are. And to know you aren't "behaving like a woman," or "acting like a woman," is just plain...bizarre. It's the 21st century. What's acting like a woman? What's acting like a man?
Invalidating someone's life experiences or gender identity is offensive. I'm very sorry that so few people seem to realize the damage that words like that can do, and I'm even sorrier than so many people seem to think that I'm a terrible, offensive person for having pointed out in public that these things can be offensive to real people.
You're not a terrible, offensive person - name calling is just a mechanism that people are using to deny that they could possibly be acting "terrible" or offensively. But, I'm not a psychologist - I've just been called quite a few names in my day and it seems like a pattern.
This is the hard part of what we're all examining here - we have to discuss these things, and people are going to call us names, declare us of having agendas and seek ways to "stop" us or shush us. I really appreciate you speaking up, sharing your thoughts and so forth, especially as an admin. To have people with power speak up, really is an impactful thing. And it's not a witch hunt - it's on the internet, it's right there, for all to read, and you as an admin participated and read it. You did what most people seem to don't - you spoke against the "Wiki-grain."
<3
I'm greatly discouraged by the feedback I'm getting here, the loudest of which seems to be telling me that if someone makes an offensive comment, it's incredibly rude to tell them they're being offensive.
+1
People often don't like being pointed out on their behavior, when it's bad. Who does? But this is grown up time, so kids, if you can dish it "like a grown up" (a rather immature one!), you should be able to take it like a grown up and listen when your colleagues say "You're out of line." What would you expect in an educational environment? I suppose people have been getting away with this stuff for so long they are used to it.
And it is a BOYZONE. Women only make up 9% of Wikipedia editors, and keep in mind that highly active and vocal Wikipedians make up a very small percentage of ALL EDITORS. So imagine, if only 9% of women "edit" Wikipedia...only about 1-2% of us are vocal and highly productive. If we're not working in a "boyzone" "manzone" "dudezone" "peniszone" "gentlemanzone" or whatever is preferred, then...?
But at least I know if I upload too many copyright violations as a n00b because I don't understand copyright law and the wiki-speak on the documentation pages doesn't help, I can get my account blocked for a while instead of getting help on how copyright works on Wikipedia. On OTRS I get a lot of inquiries from people who have their accounts blocked for a week because they have no clue that they "can't do that" and complain about how complex things are. At least we're blocking people for having good intentions.
-Sarah