Powers answer is pretty much what my answer was going to be had I not fallen asleep before I had the time to compose a full response.  I view invalidating someone else's gender identity as a pretty egregious violation of the safe space that this list should, ideally, be.  I say "gender identity" instead of "identity as a woman" because I intend the statement to apply to all genders; I'm not okay with someone invalidating someone's identity as a woman, someone's identity as a man, or any other gender identity someone on this list may have.  The context I would imagine this being most likely to come up in on this list is where someone's gender identity doesn't match their birth sex, but that's certainly not the only context I can see it being a problem in. If a situation comes up where someone is clearly attempting to invalidate someone's gender identity not out of ignorance or as a slip-up (heck, I've used the wrong pronoun for one of my housemates at least once this week,) but out of more sinister motives, then things are, in fact, likely to go BOOM.  But, as has been outlined in pretty much every discussion of the moderation of this list previously, no one needs to worry about being moderated for making a mistake, or for being unfamiliar with a concept.

The only thing that moderation actions taken on this list try to promote (and there have been very few of them) is an environment where members feel safe, comfortable contributing, and don't feel like they are being viciously personally attacked or having fundamental aspects of their being brought in to question.  Since you brought up the question as to whether women are involved in these decisions, I guess I might as well state that although I have often been the person actually putting people on +mod, I've never done so without consulting with at least four or five people beforehand, most of those people are women, and I typically am inclined towards less drastic action than any of the people I speak with beforehand are - and if they disagreed with me that something was appropriate to moderate for, I wouldn't moderate on it.

But... The point of my previous post here wasn't to suggest any sort of impending moderation action against anyone for anything whatsoever, but rather to point out that John was levying a rather serious accusation at a moment when it wasn't supported. I had a pretty good idea of what 'aviatrix' meant (which, iirc, was one of the initial words under discussion here,) but in all honesty I had to look it up before I was sure I was right.  I feel like there's a world of difference between wondering whether or not we should be using archaic terms like aviatrix in the encyclopedia and invalidating someone's personal gender identity, and I really strongly feel that it is actively significantly counterproductive to conflate the two.

---
Kevin Gorman


On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Powers <LtPowers_Wiki@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
I'll leave the rest of your post to the others on this list, but I can
answer this question:

> What is it I am allowed to say about my gender identity or
> anyone elses and what is it I am not allowed to say?

You can say anything you want about your own gender identity.  What you
cannot (politely) do is contradict what someone else says about his or her
own gender identity.

So if someone (anyone, not just a list participant) says "I'm a woman and I
always have been", you should never say "No, you aren't."  Nor "That person
is only pretending to be a woman."  Nor "He may feel like a woman but until
he's taken a legal or surgical procedure, he's a man."

It's that simple.


                Powers  &8^]



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