Preparing for the Education Extension shutdown?

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Vojtěch Dostál

2 Feb 2018 2 Feb '18

8:24 a.m.

Hello. I just read this: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/January_2018/Education_E… If WMF wants to shut something down, OK, but then it's WMF's responsibility to replace it adequately. In the article, I see no mention whatsoever of : 1) *data retention *- how will WMF do this so that no data on courses and enrolled students is lost? Please remember this is data manually collected by hundreds of volunteer teachers. 2)* providing a feasible alternative* - although Dashboard is very helpful, it doesn't really communicate with Wikipedia unless there is a bot transferring the data from Dashboard to userpages and coursepages on a respective wiki. Many people from our community actually prefer us using the Education extension because it displays information about students on-wiki. If Dashboard is to be the tool of choice for student courses, it should be much easier to set up a bot to transfer this data. The Czech team is fairly big and professionalized and we could probably cope with (1) on our own and maybe (2), but it's 100 countries we're talking about here and I'd expect a more coordinated solution. What do others think? Vojtěch Dostál předseda rady / chair of the board Wikimedia Česká republika | http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/b--eXr>

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Sara Mörtsell

2 Feb 2 Feb

8:42 a.m.

Hi all, I'd really like to see the issues Vojtěch is raising addressed. I felt the announcement about shutting down the Education extension was leaving out important details about data retention for example. Best, Sara On 2 February 2018 at 08:24, Vojtěch Dostál <vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz> wrote:

...

Hello. I just read this: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/January_2018/Education_ Extension_scheduled_shutdown If WMF wants to shut something down, OK, but then it's WMF's responsibility to replace it adequately. In the article, I see no mention whatsoever of : 1) *data retention *- how will WMF do this so that no data on courses and enrolled students is lost? Please remember this is data manually collected by hundreds of volunteer teachers. 2)* providing a feasible alternative* - although Dashboard is very helpful, it doesn't really communicate with Wikipedia unless there is a bot transferring the data from Dashboard to userpages and coursepages on a respective wiki. Many people from our community actually prefer us using the Education extension because it displays information about students on-wiki. If Dashboard is to be the tool of choice for student courses, it should be much easier to set up a bot to transfer this data. The Czech team is fairly big and professionalized and we could probably cope with (1) on our own and maybe (2), but it's 100 countries we're talking about here and I'd expect a more coordinated solution. What do others think? Vojtěch Dostál předseda rady / chair of the board Wikimedia Česká republika | http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/b--eXr> _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Shani Evenstein

11:58 a.m.

Agreed. Shani. On 2 Feb 2018 09:43, "Sara Mörtsell" <sara.mortsell(a)wikimedia.se> wrote:

...

Hello. I just read this: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/

January_2018/Education_

Extension_scheduled_shutdown If WMF wants to shut something down, OK, but then it's WMF's

responsibility

to replace it adequately. In the article, I see no mention whatsoever of

1) *data retention *- how will WMF do this so that no data on courses and enrolled students is lost? Please remember this is data manually

collected

by hundreds of volunteer teachers. 2)* providing a feasible alternative* - although Dashboard is very

helpful,

it doesn't really communicate with Wikipedia unless there is a bot transferring the data from Dashboard to userpages and coursepages on a respective wiki. Many people from our community actually prefer us using the Education extension because it displays information about students on-wiki. If Dashboard is to be the tool of choice for student courses, it should be much easier to set up a bot to transfer this data. The Czech team is fairly big and professionalized and we could probably cope with (1) on our own and maybe (2), but it's 100 countries we're talking about here and I'd expect a more coordinated solution. What do others think? Vojtěch Dostál předseda rady / chair of the board Wikimedia Česká republika | http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <

http://eepurl.com/b--eXr>

_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

-- *Med vänliga hälsningar, * *Sara Mörtsell* Sara Mörtsell | Education Manager, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> sara.mortsell(a)wikimedia.se | +4673-383 26 70 *Stöd fri kunskap genom att bli medlem <http://blimedlem.wikimedia.se/>! * _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Tighe Flanagan

4:42 p.m.

Thanks for flagging those issues, Vojtěch. We do need to figure out all the implications of the deprecation of this software. As one starting point, I've created an umbrella task to look at data retention for the MediaWiki extension on Phabricator and subscribed folks who replied in this thread. That could be a place to organize and create sub tasks that look into that issue more fully: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T186325 The other issue is feeling like you don't have an adequate replacement in the Programs and Events Dashboard. I would encourage folks to adopt the tool since the MediaWiki extension is not a viable option for the long term. The dashboard does have some base level support and maintenance, and you can give specific feedback on the Meta talk page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Programs_%26_Events_Dashboard If you're completely new to the tool, there's even a training available here: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/training/learning-and-evaluation/usin… It would be particularly useful to know what is lacking in your view. Put another way, what's keeping you from adopting the tool? At the moment, my colleagues in Community Programs and Community Tech are looking into conducting some user research since this need was one of the top wishes in the most recent Community Wishlist Survey. Please add any feedback to the Meta talk page or you can direct it to me via email and I will pass along. Best, Tighe -- Tighe Flanagan Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation tflanagan(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:58 AM, Shani Evenstein <shani.even(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Agreed. Shani. On 2 Feb 2018 09:43, "Sara Mörtsell" <sara.mortsell(a)wikimedia.se> wrote:

Hello. I just read this: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/January_

2018/Education_

Extension_scheduled_shutdown If WMF wants to shut something down, OK, but then it's WMF's

responsibility

to replace it adequately. In the article, I see no mention whatsoever

of :

1) *data retention *- how will WMF do this so that no data on courses

and

enrolled students is lost? Please remember this is data manually

collected

by hundreds of volunteer teachers. 2)* providing a feasible alternative* - although Dashboard is very

helpful,

should be much easier to set up a bot to transfer this data. The Czech team is fairly big and professionalized and we could probably cope with (1) on our own and maybe (2), but it's 100 countries we're talking about here and I'd expect a more coordinated solution. What do others think? Vojtěch Dostál předseda rady / chair of the board Wikimedia Česká republika | http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <

http://eepurl.com/b--eXr>

_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

-- *Med vänliga hälsningar, * *Sara Mörtsell* Sara Mörtsell | Education Manager, Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida> sara.mortsell(a)wikimedia.se | +4673-383 26 70 <+46%2073%20383%2026%2070> *Stöd fri kunskap genom att bli medlem <http://blimedlem.wikimedia.se/>! * _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Vojtěch Dostál

5 Feb 5 Feb

10:34 a.m.

Thanks all. Everyone is welcome to chip in with ideas to the prabricator task created by Tighe: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T186325 I hope we come up with a centralized solution. I think it would be pretty silly if every community had to do this data back-up on their own. As for the "adequate replacement" - I already explained. Our community feels that the Dashboard isn't integrated enough into Wikipedia. Bots which run on enwiki and transfer data from WikiEd dashboard might help here and I had some well-appreciated help from Sage on that - but the community asks technical questions and requests additional tweaks which I am not sure if they are possible or not. Is there any documentation on these bots besides this <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Programs_%26_Events_Dashboard#Enabling_automatic_edits_on_a_new_wiki>? It would be nice if WMF Education team gathered technical information on this. How frequently is this information updated by bots? What happens if people leave courses or the courses end? Can community opt out of one or more features of this? These are the sort of questions people ask. cheers Vojtěch Dostál předseda rady / chair of the board Wikimedia Česká republika | http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/b--eXr> 2018-02-02 16:42 GMT+01:00 Tighe Flanagan <tflanagan(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

...

Thanks for flagging those issues, Vojtěch. We do need to figure out all the implications of the deprecation of this software. As one starting point, I've created an umbrella task to look at data retention for the MediaWiki extension on Phabricator and subscribed folks who replied in this thread. That could be a place to organize and create sub tasks that look into that issue more fully: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T186325 The other issue is feeling like you don't have an adequate replacement in the Programs and Events Dashboard. I would encourage folks to adopt the tool since the MediaWiki extension is not a viable option for the long term. The dashboard does have some base level support and maintenance, and you can give specific feedback on the Meta talk page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Programs_%26_Events_Dashboard If you're completely new to the tool, there's even a training available here: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/training/learning- and-evaluation/using-the-dashboard It would be particularly useful to know what is lacking in your view. Put another way, what's keeping you from adopting the tool? At the moment, my colleagues in Community Programs and Community Tech are looking into conducting some user research since this need was one of the top wishes in the most recent Community Wishlist Survey. Please add any feedback to the Meta talk page or you can direct it to me via email and I will pass along. Best, Tighe -- Tighe Flanagan Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation tflanagan(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:58 AM, Shani Evenstein <shani.even(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Agreed. Shani. On 2 Feb 2018 09:43, "Sara Mörtsell" <sara.mortsell(a)wikimedia.se> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd really like to see the issues Vojtěch is raising addressed. I felt

the

> announcement about shutting down the Education extension was leaving out > important details about data retention for example. > > Best, > Sara > > On 2 February 2018 at 08:24, Vojtěch Dostál <

vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz>

> wrote: > > > Hello. > > > > I just read this: > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/January_ > 2018/Education_ > > Extension_scheduled_shutdown > > > > If WMF wants to shut something down, OK, but then it's WMF's > responsibility > > to replace it adequately. In the article, I see no mention whatsoever > of : > > > > 1) *data retention *- how will WMF do this so that no data on courses > and > > enrolled students is lost? Please remember this is data manually > collected > > by hundreds of volunteer teachers. > > > > 2)* providing a feasible alternative* - although Dashboard is very > helpful, > > it doesn't really communicate with Wikipedia unless there is a bot > > transferring the data from Dashboard to userpages and coursepages on a > > respective wiki. Many people from our community actually prefer us

using

> > the Education extension because it displays information about students > > on-wiki. If Dashboard is to be the tool of choice for student courses, > it > > should be much easier to set up a bot to transfer this data. > > > > The Czech team is fairly big and professionalized and we could

probably

cope with (1) on our own and maybe (2), but it's 100 countries we're talking about here and I'd expect a more coordinated solution. What do others think? Vojtěch Dostál předseda rady / chair of the board Wikimedia Česká republika | http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <

http://eepurl.com/b--eXr>

_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

* _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Vojtěch Dostál

20 Feb 20 Feb

6:42 p.m.

It seems that everyone agrees and I'm glad to see that, but I'm worried that we lost the momentum again. Can you please post a public roadmap on this, Tighe? Currently it's unclear who does what :-). thanks

Tighe Flanagan

10:18 p.m.

Hey Vojtěch and others, My colleague, Vahid, and I are working to keep the process documented and updated in this parent task in Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125618 We will be adding new sub tasks for different parts of the process. For now we are trying to take stock of where the extension is installed, for it appears like our list may not be 100% accurate: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T187576 This isn't a full roadmap, but I hope this helps. Please subscribe to the parent task or watch that space as we continue to add to it! Best, Tighe -- Tighe Flanagan Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation tflanagan(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Vojtěch Dostál < vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz> wrote:

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Sara Mörtsell
Shani Evenstein
Tighe Flanagan
Vojtěch Dostál