First, the happy feedback: The Thumbnail styles are currently being discussed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_image_thumb_design Onwiki feedback, and further ideas, encouraged! On 14-03-28 05:02 PM, Steven Walling wrote: On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Jon Robson wrote: The ToC changes were not uncontroversial. * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh/ Archive_2#TOC_broken * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh/ Archive_2#I_don.27t_like_the_minimalist_styling The lack of bullet points becomes a problem when linewrap occurs, eg. http://i.imgur.com/uBpLLuZ.png vs http://i.imgur.com/RI9ZSBL.png The lack of numbers will cause issues for the 31,636[1] users who have the "Auto-number headings" userpreference enabled at Enwiki (plus more elsewhere). I still suggest using this code, which results in this look: http://i.imgur.com/k3ipFKz.png * Tweak Table of Contents boxes, to have smaller grey numbers and dot-suffixes */ .tocnumber:after, .mw-headline-number:after { content: "." } .tocnumber, .mw-headline-number { font-size: 80% !important; color:#333 !important;} Or, at minimum, move the ToC-numbering into the code for the "Auto-number headings" preference (a logical home), and just use bulletpoints for the default, as lists generally do. Style them however wanted, but we need /something/. [1] https://trello.com/c/tIsqX5LB/123-numberheadings-research-for-nick ----- The external link icon changes are not uncontroversial. nb. This is related to: http://i.imgur.com/VU0Ezcn.png (current vs Typography refresh/VectorBeta) This was last discussed here http://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/design/2013-October/001039.html (my post, mid-way in thread) and the only thing there seemed to be consensus on was: replacing the yellow https icon with either the blue-colored one or the plain external link one. I think the Principle of Least Astonishment applies to many of those ext-link icons, such as the media links which might trigger the auto-playing of a loud audio sample. Definitely some of them are ripe for removal (such as "news:" links), but not all, and it's worth discussing them properly before deciding. Where is the current CSS code for this stored? (both gitblit and/or onwiki) and how cross-wiki is the complexity? (ie. are there local CSS files at dozens of wikis which might have different icons? All I can find easily is the linked Italian one https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiuto:Icone_dei_link_esterni Would "Merging" icons/rules also be a possibility and helpful for reducing CSS payload size? e.g. 1 "media" icon, instead of 2 for "audio" and "video" Sidenote mostly for interest/comparison: Monobook (& Modern) uses a different set of icons: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:External_ link_icons&useskin=monobook *TL;DR*: I'm 110% in favour of replacing the yellow padlock with the blue padlock. The rest should probably be split out, and given a brief discussion onwiki, listing pros & cons. I'd personally strongly support some changes, and weakly oppose other changes. --Quiddity _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

I don't really think those things about TOC and external links are a big deal or blockers. They seem pretty nit-picky to me.

"For what it's worth" Its not worth much to anyone if you don't suggest a fix, or let us know why it was an issue for you. :)

*Jared Zimmerman * \\ Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmerman<https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Greg Grossmeier &lt;greg(a)wikimedia.org&gt;wrote;wrote: _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Katie, can you send a before and after screenshot, or links to them, since this is a visual issue (on a design list) thanks!

*Jared Zimmerman * \\ Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmerman<https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Katie Filbert < katie.filbert(a)wikimedia.de&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

"For what it's worth" Its not worth much to anyone if you don't suggest a fix, or let us know why it was an issue for you. :)

First, the happy feedback: The Thumbnail styles are currently being discussed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_image_thumb_design Onwiki feedback, and further ideas, encouraged! On 14-03-28 05:02 PM, Steven Walling wrote: On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Jon Robson wrote: The ToC changes were not uncontroversial. * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh/ Archive_2#TOC_broken * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh/ Archive_2#I_don.27t_like_the_minimalist_styling The lack of bullet points becomes a problem when linewrap occurs, eg. http://i.imgur.com/uBpLLuZ.png vs http://i.imgur.com/RI9ZSBL.png The lack of numbers will cause issues for the 31,636[1] users who have the "Auto-number headings" userpreference enabled at Enwiki (plus more elsewhere). I still suggest using this code, which results in this look: http://i.imgur.com/k3ipFKz.png * Tweak Table of Contents boxes, to have smaller grey numbers and dot-suffixes */ .tocnumber:after, .mw-headline-number:after { content: "." } .tocnumber, .mw-headline-number { font-size: 80% !important; color:#333 !important;}

Or, at minimum, move the ToC-numbering into the code for the "Auto-number headings" preference (a logical home), and just use bulletpoints for the default, as lists generally do. Style them however wanted, but we need /something/. [1] https://trello.com/c/tIsqX5LB/123-numberheadings-research-for-nick ----- The external link icon changes are not uncontroversial. nb. This is related to: http://i.imgur.com/VU0Ezcn.png (current vs Typography refresh/VectorBeta) This was last discussed here http://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/design/2013-October/001039.html (my post, mid-way in thread) and the only thing there seemed to be consensus on was: replacing the yellow https icon with either the blue-colored one or the plain external link one. I think the Principle of Least Astonishment applies to many of those ext-link icons, such as the media links which might trigger the auto-playing of a loud audio sample. Definitely some of them are ripe for removal (such as "news:" links), but not all, and it's worth discussing them properly before deciding. Where is the current CSS code for this stored? (both gitblit and/or onwiki) and how cross-wiki is the complexity? (ie. are there local CSS files at dozens of wikis which might have different icons? All I can find easily is the linked Italian one https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiuto:Icone_dei_link_esterni Would "Merging" icons/rules also be a possibility and helpful for reducing CSS payload size? e.g. 1 "media" icon, instead of 2 for "audio" and "video" Sidenote mostly for interest/comparison: Monobook (& Modern) uses a different set of icons: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:External_ link_icons&useskin=monobook *TL;DR*: I'm 110% in favour of replacing the yellow padlock with the blue padlock. The rest should probably be split out, and given a brief discussion onwiki, listing pros & cons. I'd personally strongly support some changes, and weakly oppose other changes. --Quiddity _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

First, the happy feedback: The Thumbnail styles are currently being discussed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_image_thumb_design Onwiki feedback, and further ideas, encouraged!

Nemo, we don't plan on using soft drop shadows (or gradients) anywhere in the UI going forward so the design your referring to doesn't really make a lot of sense with the direction of mediawiki.ui

In which case why didn't we just push the changes with everything else? We must have seen some reason for them to keep out of the typography release... was there?