Re: [Commons-l] Corbis Sygma - Commons-l

Jon Davis

28 Feb 28 Feb

2:51 a.m.

New subject: Corbis Sygma

Forgive me if I'm off base here, but from what I understand it. The images to be lost are " 25% of photographic elements remaining under the control of liquidator (photographers without a signed contract with Corbis Corporation and is represented by Sygma)". That would seem to indicate that regardless of how they got these images, they don't have a contract on file and that concerns me. Are we even sure that if the Foundation bought the photos, that they'd be able to release them? And how in the bloody hell would commons handle more than double the amount of content it already has. Sure, going from 10 million files to 22 million files would be kick ass, but that would be a MAJOR amount of work for EVERYONE involved. (Not saying it's a bad idea, just concerned). -Jon On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 17:29, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

http://www.ajmj.fr/php/annuaire/pageFicheAnnuaire.php?id=354 if my french still serves me - Stephane Gorrias - Mandataire Judiciaire - Près la Cour D'appel De Versailles - Tribunal principal : - Année d'inscription : 2003 - SCP : SCP BECHERET-THIERRY-SENECHAL-GORRIAS - Courriel : stephane.gorrias(a)ajmj.fr - - Domicile Professionnel - 1 Place Boieldieu - 75002 PARIS - Télécopie : 01 40 28 06 70 these are the contact details On 28 February 2011 06:44, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia-inc.com> wrote:

Happy to help if I can, but it does seem that the photos are physical objects and therefore possibly expensive to store/digitize. If someone can help me find the email address of the decision maker there, I'm happy to open or lend support to a conversation with them. It isn't clear from the blog whether they own only the physical objects or also the copyrights. On 2/26/11 12:28 PM, Gnangarra wrote:

http://blog.melchersystem.com/2011/02/25/the-fire-this-time/ 12 Million Photographs are to be destroyed because liquidators cant find a buyer? these arent just random landscape photos, these are photos are from the fench news agency Sygma Wikimedia-france, Jimbo, any chance they could find their way to Commons rather than just being destroyed and lost for ever....... -- GN. Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com

-- GN. Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

-- Jon [[User:ShakataGaNai]] / KJ6FNQ http://snowulf.com/ http://ipv6wiki.net/

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Gnangarra

7:03 a.m.

New subject: Corbis Sygma

Without talking to the liquidators, how much could they be looking for at the moment their plan is to destroy the negatives that'll cost them(ultimately the creditors) what $5,000 to $10,000 so I'd think any value for the negatives is a positive for the liquidators and the creditors. We'd probably need to find someone from the GLAM sector to become involved as we cant store the negatives and theres not a realistically short timeframe for digitising such a collection so it'd have to be an extended project. I'd assume that if they can sell the negatives they must own them, and rights to use them why else would the liquidators consider them a disposable asset. If they dont own the rights to the images then the asset value is very small realistically thats just the recyclable value of the media itself, its also probably not of an immediate benefit to Us except in the good will preserving such a collect would give us with the GLAM sector rather than being seen as just noncontributing consumer of all that is free. Really we cant speculate we need to contact the liquidator and find out some more detail, Liam points out this an opportunity for a local chapter but I' m happy to make initial enquiries and then hand it across at a later date. On 28 February 2011 10:20, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Responding to Gnangarra - this is a very interesting issue indeed, and one that we might be able to make a big impact with, but I don't think this is a Wikimedia FOUNDATION issue as it involves the creation/purchase of content. Rather I would suggest that this is an issue that falls within the scope of the Chapters - in this case WM-FR. Either money could be spent directly from a chapter(s) budget or potentially the chapter(s) could run a specific donation-drive to fund such a purchase? Besides, how much are we talking here? $50,000? $500,000? $5million? Response to Jon - the way I read that, it means that 75% of the photographs were taken under contract with Corbis and therefore the copyright would come with the purchase of the collection. Any purchase could presumably be specified to only those images which come WITH the copyright. -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love & metadata On 28 February 2011 01:51, Jon Davis <wiki(a)konsoletek.com> wrote:

Forgive me if I'm off base here, but from what I understand it. The images to be lost are " 25% of photographic elements remaining under the control of liquidator (photographers without a signed contract with Corbis Corporation and is represented by Sygma)". That would seem to indicate that regardless of how they got these images, they don't have a contract on file and that concerns me. Are we even sure that if the Foundation bought the photos, that they'd be able to release them? And how in the bloody hell would commons handle more than double the amount of content it already has. Sure, going from 10 million files to 22 million files would be kick ass, but that would be a MAJOR amount of work for EVERYONE involved. (Not saying it's a bad idea, just concerned). -Jon On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 17:29, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.ajmj.fr/php/annuaire/pageFicheAnnuaire.php?id=354 if my french still serves me - Stephane Gorrias - Mandataire Judiciaire - Près la Cour D'appel De Versailles - Tribunal principal : - Année d'inscription : 2003 - SCP : SCP BECHERET-THIERRY-SENECHAL-GORRIAS - Courriel : stephane.gorrias(a)ajmj.fr - - Domicile Professionnel - 1 Place Boieldieu - 75002 PARIS - Télécopie : 01 40 28 06 70 these are the contact details On 28 February 2011 06:44, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia-inc.com> wrote:

Happy to help if I can, but it does seem that the photos are physical objects and therefore possibly expensive to store/digitize. If someone can help me find the email address of the decision maker there, I'm happy to open or lend support to a conversation with them. It isn't clear from the blog whether they own only the physical objects or also the copyrights. On 2/26/11 12:28 PM, Gnangarra wrote: > http://blog.melchersystem.com/2011/02/25/the-fire-this-time/ > > 12 Million Photographs are to be destroyed because liquidators cant > find > a buyer? > > these arent just random landscape photos, these are photos are from the > fench news agency Sygma > > Wikimedia-france, Jimbo, any chance they could find their way to > Commons > rather than just being destroyed and lost for ever....... > > -- > GN. > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com >

-- GN. Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

-- Jon [[User:ShakataGaNai]] / KJ6FNQ http://snowulf.com/ http://ipv6wiki.net/ _______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

_______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

-- GN. Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Gn. Blogg: http://gnangarra.wordpress.com

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Gerard Meijssen

9:13 a.m.

New subject: Corbis Sygma

Hoi, With a growing network in the GLAM work we can get attention for this collection. When you read the documentation, Corbis did the equivalent of strip-farming. They took everything where the copyright is with them out and now what is left is the material that does not have clarity about the copyright holder. Given that Mr Bill Gates is involved in Corbis, we can see what his appreciation is of this situation. Also the European Union is pondering what to do with orphan works. When we adopt this collection, it allows us to put pressure on the copyright junkies. Thanks, GerardM 2011/2/28 Delphine Ménard <notafishz(a)gmail.com>

...

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:20 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Responding to Gnangarra - this is a very interesting issue indeed, and

one

that we might be able to make a big impact with, but I don't think this

is a

Wikimedia FOUNDATION issue as it involves the creation/purchase of

content.

Rather I would suggest that this is an issue that falls within the scope

of

the Chapters - in this case WM-FR. Either money could be spent directly

from

a chapter(s) budget or potentially the chapter(s) could run a specific donation-drive to fund such a purchase? Besides, how much are we talking here? $50,000? $500,000? $5million? Response to Jon - the way I read that, it means that 75% of the

photographs

were taken under contract with Corbis and therefore the copyright would

come

with the purchase of the collection. Any purchase could presumably be specified to only those images which come WITH the copyright.

It's not exactly clear to me. One thing though, if the copyright lies with an agency, it lies with Sygma, and not Corbis. Or rather, with the company that resulted of Sygma's buying and that is being dissolved. But the phrasing is very strange, and talks about a contract not being signed, so I am really not sure what the exact copyright status of this collection is. One thing is certain, it's a huge amount of photographs (some 12,5 millions, 7km of shelves!), which means that as such there is little chance that Wikimedia (France or other) has the financial potential to on the one hand buy the collection (although Gnangarra has a point in that it's probably not too expensive), but more importantly to preserve such a collection. Delphine -- @notafish NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org _______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

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