On Mon, 16 May 2011, geni wrote:
On 16 May 2011 09:56, Chris McKenna
Am I alaone in completely failing to understand
what the fuss is about?
Your statement isn't credible.
I don't understand what is not credible about my statement? I honestly do
not understand why anybody finds this image objectionable.
The image is not pornographic,
Pornography is defined as:
"The explicit depiction of sexual subject matter, especially with the sole
intention of sexually exciting the viewer."
The subject matter of this image is not sexual. Therefore it is not
exploitative, illegal or otherwise
inapropriate for featured picture status.
Yes you may not be aware of it but there are many projects out there
that are able to distinguish between "featured X" and "must appear on
the main page"
Commons does not presently make this distinction and so your satement is
irrelevant to it appearing on today's main page. If you wish to make this
distinction, please propose it, along with a rationale and the
objective criteria you propose to use. If your proposal gains consensus
then images you object to will not appear on the main page.
If you want to
any keep images off the main page that are "sexy",
"pornographic", "offensive" or any other arbitrary label you wish to
choose, please start by defining in a neutral, objective and culturally
independent manner every such label you want to use.
Within the context of the culture it was produced in the image is
clearly an attempt at low level errotica
No, within the context of the culture you are viewing it in, you are
interpreting it as "low level errotica".
In the context I am viewing it in, I'm seeing nothing of the sort.
According to the description provided by the creator it does not appear to
be anything of the sort.
The creator is apparently German. I believe that current German culture is
far more permissive with regards nudity than contemporary American or
British culture. There is certainly much less equasion of nudity with sex
than in these two cultures.
please explain how this is compatible with Commons being not
Main page is not equal to commons.
I'm not aware of anywhere that exempts the main page from the "Commons is
not censored" policy, nor of any other policy that states it is censored.
If you wish to change this please gain consensus.
please define precisely what it is you are trying to achieve and
why. Please do so in an objective and culturally independent manner.
We are trying to demonstrate that commons is not a sexualised enviroment.
Okay. I don't understand how this relates to this image though.
Please explain how your comments are neutral and
take into account the
sensitivities of all cultures and special interest groups, not just your
I am not the one claiming this image is offensive or inapropriate. I am
saying that as Commons is not censored (other than is required by the
laws of Florida where it is hosted), we do not judge what is and is not
All of the example images I gave were chosen because they are as likely to
offend a group of people as this one seems to, just different groups of
people. For instance several cultures object to the depiction of any
images of human beings, others regard a woman with her head uncovered to
be very offensive.
The image of a woman on the sanddune is of an off-duty military officer.
There are many people for whom female military officers are offensive,
others will object to public money being spent on such activities and/or
the official photogrpahing of such activities. That the woman is also not
dressed in accordance to the local culture would also be very offensive to
If you would consider any of these to be accpetable for the main page, but
not the original image under discussion, then I'm asking you to explain
how your view is objective.
My view is that all featured pictures are suitable for the main page
because Commons is not censored - it is thus neutral as it takes into
account that there is no global standard in this regard and is biased
towards no one group.
Now, how about answering the remaining points?
The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart
Antoine de Saint Exupery