I find the idea that "beta" is an stable environment where users can try
stuff is not in sync with the fact thatbeta-labs is a release and QA
testing environment for every single team.
For example: we are actually about to test some changes to EL on our end,
those will affect data gathering on our side and that is should be no
issue, we are dealing with a testing environment and we are changing our
database interaction without affecting prod. However our changes might
break the data collection in beta-labs. That should not block you, it's a
testing playground for everyone.
A testing environment to test release is an OK place to test software, I am
not so sure that is best suited to test "features". You require the rest of
the system to be stable and that will not always be the case. Now, it could
very well be that we have no better place to test content translation
software at this time, if this is the best we have let's use it but with
the right set of expectations.
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Pau Giner <pginer(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
This is normally what product refers to as
"beta". You can, of course,
confirm.
I think that the Product team is already aware that Content Translation is
not a "beta feature". It is deployed on beta-labs, but it is used by users
to create articles that later they copy and publish to a real Wikipedia
(which may qualify as "REAL USERS USAGE"). You can check this page
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Published_pages> for
a list of articles created on beta-labs and published into real Wikipedias.
The beta-features framework isolates users from UI changes but not from
the content produced/modified by the features. If we deploy Content
Translation as a beta feature, the articles published by users will be
visible to everyone because this is content created on a real Wikipedia.
Thus, the community can tell us: "how do we know this is not going to flood
Wikipedia with robot-like horrible translations? Or directly telling us we
are doing so because they just found a couple of bad translated articles",
and we can tell that the experience in our test environments was positive
in number of ways (user testing, info from manually collecting numbers) but
we don't have more detailed numbers on article production and we are not
ready to measure the impact right after we deployed because it was not
possible to get things ready in advance. I find this approach could be
problematic, but I'm happy to follow the Analytics advice on this.
In any case, as said before, this is worth checking with product.
Pau
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Nuria Ruiz <nuria(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Joel,
>
> Please look at the wiki page for beta features: "The primary purpose of
> Beta Features is to allow for Wikimedia designers and engineers (from the
> Wikimedia Foundation and community alike) to roll out technical
> improvements in an environment where large numbers of users can test, give
> feedback, and use these features in real-world settings. "
>
>
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features
>
> This is normally what product refers to as "beta". You can, of course,
confirm.
>
> Beta cluster purpose is software testing (not quite the same thing):
>
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_cluster
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nuria
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Joel Sahleen <jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I think there is a confusion between the not so well named beta
>> environment (testing environment in labs, which is what our thread refers
>> to) and being a beta-feature. *If you are a beta-feature you are IN
>> production and you can get data.*
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the clarification, Nuria.
>>
>> The issue, as I understand it, is that Product is asking for metrics on
>> Content Translation usage "in beta” so they can make a
"data-driven"
>> decision about deployment to production. If what Product means by “in beta”
>> is “as a beta feature” then we really have no problem. We’ll just have to
>> wait until after we deploy as a beta feature in January to start collecting
>> data and doing visualizations.
>>
>> My understanding, however, is that what Product is asking for is metrics
>> on Content Translation usage in “the beta environment” where a group of
>> beta-testers has been using the extension for several months now. If the
>> event logging data in "the beta environment" is not stable and this
>> environment is really a software testing environment instead of a beta
>> testing environment, then we can’t really fulfill Product's request; at
>> least not by using event logging.
>>
>> It looks like we need clarification from Product regarding what they
>> mean by “beta,” and if that turns out to be “the beta environment” then we
>> will have to work something out.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Joel Sahleen <jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +2
>>>
>>> If the beta environment isn’t supposed to be used for beta testing, it
>>> shouldn’t be called beta.
>>>
>>> I’m all for grabbing the data and doing our own visualizations, but
>>> there is no guarantee that any data we grab will be accurate since they
>>> data in the beta db may be blown up at any time.
>>>
>>> Joel Sahleen, Software Engineer
>>> Language Engineering
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 11:26 AM, Pau Giner <pginer(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dashboards can only be created o production data,
>>>
>>>
>>> From product we are constantly encouraged to be data-driven ("measure
>>> twice, implement once"). When I read that we need to be in production
to
>>> get metrics, it feels like a circular dependency: Product wants us to have
>>> numbers that justify the move to production, but Analytics tells us that we
>>> need to be in production to get those numbers. I think it is worth opening
>>> a conversation in the Product list to clarify their expectations.
>>>
>>> My experience with the Multimedia team was that having the ability to
>>> visualise metrics and check how those were affected by changes in the
>>> product has been really useful, and we only wish we could have had such
>>> metrics available from day one. In addition, Content Translation is being
>>> used in beta for real work by some users, and we are already missing
>>> information on how they are doing so. So any idea on how can get and make
>>> sense of some of this information (apart from manual collection) would be
>>> appreciated (maybe get the data in a way we could use some quick
>>> d3-based tool <http://code.shutterstock.com/rickshaw/>?).
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Pau
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Joel Sahleen <jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:13 AM, Nuria Ruiz <nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Since event logging in beta and production appear to be separate, I
>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to set up separate dashboards for
>>>> beta and >production.
>>>>
>>>> Dashboards can only be created o production data, Joel. We might blow
>>>> up data in beta environment database to test something else so there is
no
>>>> guaranteed availability there. It is purely a testing environment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense I suppose, but if the data in beta is unstable there
>>>> doesn’t seem much point in doing any of this there, beyond confirming
that
>>>> we are sending valid events, which has already been done. I guess we
will
>>>> just have to wait until we go to production to set things up. It would
be
>>>> nice if we had a real beta environment we could use for beta testing,
but
>>>> that’s a larger issue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Joel Sahleen
<jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to check in on this and confirm where things are at. As far
>>>>> as I understand, the outstanding issues for beta are:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. We still need to verify that events sent from Content Translation
>>>>> are being collected in beta. The analytics team is looking into the
issues
>>>>> in beta and Nuria has created a bug
>>>>> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73388> in
bugzilla
>>>>> to track any related work.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Sometime after Dan gets back from vacation, he and Joel will need
>>>>> to work together to set up a basic dashboard based on Dan's
>>>>> instructions
>>>>> <https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Analytics/Dashboards>.
Timing
>>>>> is dependent on 1. @Dan, let me know what works best for you and how
I can
>>>>> best help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since event logging in beta and production appear to be separate, I
>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to set up separate dashboards
for
>>>>> beta and production. That would be very useful for us because it
would
>>>>> allow us to track the usage of languages we release to beta and then
use
>>>>> that data to prioritize the languages we release to production.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 14, 2014, at 11:05 AM, Nuria Ruiz <nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Joel, Ori looked into this now. There was a problem with EL in
labs
>>>>> which affected logging events from Beta. Ori has fixed the issue, and
the
>>>>> fix is >waiting approval from ops. Let's touch-base tomorrow
to see
>>>>> if we see events.
>>>>> In order to be able to properly test whether the fix fixes this
issue
>>>>> we need to know what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a bug logged for the situation of beta and EL, can we
please
>>>>> link any commits to this bug?
>>>>>
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73388
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, one thing is the setup of the varnish environment and other
the
>>>>> setup of the eventlogging machine that has not received new code for
quite
>>>>> a while, so I think we have more than one problem here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Leila Zia
<leila(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> [+ Ori]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joel, Ori looked into this now. There was a problem with EL in
labs
>>>>>> which affected logging events from Beta. Ori has fixed the issue,
and the
>>>>>> fix is waiting approval from ops. Let's touch-base tomorrow
to see if we
>>>>>> see events.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leila
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Nuria Ruiz
<nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joel:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see, I was hoping to set aside the beta issues but if you
are not
>>>>>>> deploying to prod any time soon I guess we will need to
troubleshoot there.
>>>>>>> By the looks of it EL has not worked in beta since august,
but, as I said
>>>>>>> before, I know very little about how beta is put together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have filed a bug to regarding the beta issue:
>>>>>>>
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73388
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Joel Sahleen <
>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Nuria,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >Please let me know if there is any way I can help out
or if
>>>>>>>> there is anything you need from our end.
>>>>>>>> When you have deployed your newest code to production,
let's check
>>>>>>>> whether events appear on the production stream. Let us
know when deployment
>>>>>>>> is done and you think your code should be logging.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our code is not scheduled to be released to production
until
>>>>>>>> January. Getting the metrics is partly to help us ensure
and promote that
>>>>>>>> release. We will keep you informed as our plans progress,
but hopefully we
>>>>>>>> can figure out what the issue is in beta soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To confirm: You have seen proper logging from your events
in
>>>>>>>> vagrant, right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The output I am seeing with vagrant is what I pasted to
this
>>>>>>>> thread earlier. It does not contain the url-encoded
section or the user
>>>>>>>> agent information as we discussed before. I think that is
an issue with my
>>>>>>>> dev environment, however, and not a problem with the
code. The same code
>>>>>>>> appears to be sending valid events in beta. The http
request I sent to your
>>>>>>>> email earlier is what we are seeing there. It seems to
include all the
>>>>>>>> information you said it should include.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you want to debug what is happening in beta yourself,
an easy
>>>>>>>> way I found to do that is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Go to our Content Translation translation view
>>>>>>>>
<http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:ContentTranslation?page=Han+Feizi&from=es&to=ca&targettitle=Han+Feizi>
page
>>>>>>>> in beta (you will need to create an account and sign
in)
>>>>>>>> 2. Open chrome dev tools,
>>>>>>>> 3. Click the add translation links that appear in the
middle
>>>>>>>> column to add a few machine translated paragraphs to
the editor
>>>>>>>> 4. Click on the publish button in the header to
publish the
>>>>>>>> translation to your user namespace (triggers EL
event)
>>>>>>>> 5. Look at the network pane in chrome dev tools and
find the
>>>>>>>> entry with the event logging url (it should be near
the bottom).
>>>>>>>> 6. Click on the entry to see all the request and
response
>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You probably already know all this, but I thought I would
pass it
>>>>>>>> along just in case it helps.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Di you setup a sampling rate or code is logging 1 to 1?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No sample rate. Just logging 1 to 1.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On our end we will work to troubleshoot the beta EL
>>>>>>>> infrastructure, I am not familiar with it and neither is
anyone on our team
>>>>>>>> but we will ask around.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, Dan said you all kind of inherited EL so that’s
totally
>>>>>>>> understandable. We appreciate you looking into this for
us. Let us know how
>>>>>>>> else we can help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Joel Sahleen <
>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Nuria,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you so much for your help on this. Please let
me know if
>>>>>>>>> there is any way I can help out or if there is
anything you need from our
>>>>>>>>> end.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joel Sahleen, Software Engineer
>>>>>>>>> Language Engineering
>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Nuria Ruiz
<nuria(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Taking last statement back, asked Yuvi and beta does
have a
>>>>>>>>> varnish instance so the flow of EL events
"should" be the same one that
>>>>>>>>> production.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now I looked on deployment-eventlogging02, which is
the EL
>>>>>>>>> machine for labs and the last events I see there are
from Aug 22.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So no events have come in as of late, which could
point to an
>>>>>>>>> issue on the setup. I will look into it some more.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nuria
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Nuria Ruiz
<nuria(a)wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To keep archives happy: Beta setup post events
to
>>>>>>>>>>
http://bits.beta.wmflabs.org/event.gif
>>>>>>>>>>
<http://bits.beta.wmflabs.org/event.gif?foo=bar> that, while it
>>>>>>>>>> does not look to be varnish, has some kind of
listener that post those
>>>>>>>>>> events to beta event logging database.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Joel Sahleen
<
>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Niklas,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can you answer this question from Nuria?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen: does beta have its own varnish
instance? where are
>>>>>>>>>>> you posting your events in beta? can you send
teh url?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also would it be possible to document the
steps you used when
>>>>>>>>>>> testing EL on beta so that others can
reproduce them?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joel Sahleen, Software Engineer
>>>>>>>>>>> Language Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 12, 2014, at 4:28 AM, Joel Sahleen
<
>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Moving this discussion to analytics@ and
localization-team@
>>>>>>>>>>> based on Nuria’s suggestion below.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Leila,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The output I posted in the message is the
only output I am
>>>>>>>>>>> seeing. I do not see the URL-encoded section
or the validation section. I
>>>>>>>>>>> think there may be something wrong with my
testing setup.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Niklas Laxstöm has checked what is happening
with our event
>>>>>>>>>>> logging in beta and he confirmed that we are
sending events and the events
>>>>>>>>>>> are valid. The issue seems to be that we are
logging events to the beta
>>>>>>>>>>> event logging db while what we checked
earlier was the production event
>>>>>>>>>>> logging db.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can you (or anyone who is available) check
the event logging db
>>>>>>>>>>> in beta to see if the table has been created
and has data? The schema name
>>>>>>>>>>> again is ContentTranslation. If you don’t
find anything, let us know and we
>>>>>>>>>>> will do some more investigation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If there is data in the beta db the next step
would be to
>>>>>>>>>>> follow with Dan’s instructions
>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Analytics/Dashboards> to
>>>>>>>>>>> get a dashboard set up on limn1. I believe
that most of Dan’s instructions
>>>>>>>>>>> need to be handled by someone on the
analytics team, but let me know if
>>>>>>>>>>> there is anything I can help with.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again for your help!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joel Sahleen, Software Engineer
>>>>>>>>>>> Language Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2014, at 11:47 PM, Leila Zia
<leila(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Joel,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When you log events, the output will be
the URL-encoded
>>>>>>>>>>> JSON sent by the browser, the event record
(similar to what you pasted in
>>>>>>>>>>> your email), and whether the event validates
against the schema. For the
>>>>>>>>>>> sample output you pasted earlier, or another
sample output, can you let us
>>>>>>>>>>> know if validation section shows Valid?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Leila
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Nuria Ruiz
<
>>>>>>>>>>> nuria(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For questions like these going forward
you can contact
>>>>>>>>>>>> analytics@ as you will be getting amore
prompt response.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Dan and Leila are OOTO the next
couple of days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >There are configuration options for
the dev server that need
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be added. Do similar options need to
be added when not using the dev
>>>>>>>>>>>> server?
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, there is no need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You would need sample rates to determine
at which sampling
>>>>>>>>>>>> rate you are logging if you are not
logging all events, that is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nuria
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Dan
Andreescu <
>>>>>>>>>>>> dandreescu(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding Nuria as she can probably
help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 10, 2014, Joel
Sahleen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Leila,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have tested our EventLogging
code and it seems to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working fine with the event
logging dev server. I can see the events coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through and they are valid. Here
is some sample output:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {"wiki":
"wiki", "uuid": "e9dde14cf18552269ae81a7897f45d0c",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "webHost":
"localhost", "timestamp": 1415651367, "clientValidated":
true,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "recvFrom":
"1.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa", "seqId": 2, "clientIp":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"80f7683f3565e3d365740a1c8d1771ba95caaaaa", "schema":
"ContentTranslation",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "event":
{"action": "create-translated-page", "targetLanguage":
"ca",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "token":
"Tester", "version": 1, "contentLanguage": "es"},
"revision":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7146627}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there additional
configuration options we need to add to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get EL working aside from just
requiring the main extension file. There are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration options for the dev
server that need to be added. Do similar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options need to be added when not
using the dev server?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any help on this would be much
appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 7, 2014, at 3:52 PM, Joel
Sahleen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No problem, Dan. Enjoy your
vacation!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will read through the document
at the link you sent. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still need to fix our event
logging code so it may be a couple days before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we are ready anyway. If I have
any questions I will contact Leila or Nuria.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel Sahleen, Software Engineer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Language Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 7, 2014, at 3:10 PM, Dan
Andreescu <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dandreescu(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel, re: visualization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going on vacation
tomorrow and will be back on November
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19th. If that's not too
late, I can set up a limn instance then. If it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too late, that's ok, I wrote
up the steps needed. Someone with access to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the limn1.eqiad.wmflabs instance
can perform them:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Analytics/Dashboards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have the data or are
generating the data in some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other way, then you don't
need half of that setup, you just need the part
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that sets up the limn dashboard
which is only an hour or so of work. Sorry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm running out the door and
can't take care of that for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:37 AM,
Joel Sahleen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the
information, Pau. Very helpful. As you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say, this does not change our
current plans or hold us up in any way. I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just wasn’t clear about the
relationship between the "high priorities" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "other metrics”
sections. Knowing these came from different people at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different times clarifies
things a lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 7, 2014, at 3:44 AM,
Pau Giner <pginer(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Pau, @Amir There is a
section called High priorities for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/analytics#High_priorities_for_product_management>
on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Content translation
analytics page. Did these priorities come from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside the team or does
this just represent our own internal view of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high priorities?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the story of that
page as I'm aware of it:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In September 2013, I was in a
meeting with the analytics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team in SF presentingan
initial proposal for metrics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/presentation/d/1V1XLV7jUcAtco5ZC49SNTt3VecH7hARZ6vqbSFGnOYc/edit?usp=sharing>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On that meeting, Dario
recommended to create hierarchy of metrics based on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the project goals. I created
such image and a description for those metrics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (the image is on top of our
analytics page and the metrics are described in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what it now the "Other
metrics for created articles" section.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a meeting between Amir and
Howie, they captured which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be the most important
metrics from the product perspective in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "High priorities for
product management". If I recalled correctly, as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outcome of later meetings
between Howie and Amir, Howie was happy focusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on articles published as a
single (initial?) metric for success. Amir can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide more details since I
was not on those meetings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In short: The analytics page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/analytics>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has pieces contributed by
different people during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last year, and although there
are many ideas to organise and detail,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> measuring the number of
published articles seems to be the solid candidate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get started with, learn
from the value we get from it and polish the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of ourgoal-to-signal
process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<http://www.rodden.org/kerry/heart/> for detecting better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metrics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:57
AM, Joel Sahleen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org>wroteote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been reviewing our
requirements for Content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translation analytics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/analytics> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few
questions/requests. I am sending them to the language team
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list and Leila and Dan in
the hopes of getting some more clarity. I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add the same content to
the Trello card.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the weekly team
meeting earlier today we agreed that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the first metric we want
to collect data for is the number of articles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created in each language
over time. This is something has Amir has already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up our current Event
Logging
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki/extensions/ContentTranslation/89b6284f06b4419ddec6dcccee0eed500f267100/modules/eventlogging/ext.cx.eventlogging.js>
to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> track. Now that Kartik
has enabled EL in beta, that part should be done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since we are only barely
turning it on, there will be very little data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until people create more
articles using CX. However, we should be set up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collect any new data that
comes in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Leila, can you verify
that the db table now exists for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ContentTranslation
schema
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Schema:ContentTranslation>?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If it doesn’t, can you
point us to right people we need to work with to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> troubleshoot the issue?
Also you mentioned in our meeting that personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> data may soon be purged
after 90 days as part of a new privacy policy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could you explain that a
bit more or point us to more information? If this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the case, it may
affect some of the metrics we would like to collect in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Dan, what do we need to
do next in order to set up a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple visualization that
would show the number of articles created per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> week by language. Pau has
an image of what he would like on the Trello
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> card
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://trello.com/c/vQm0hlkt/18-content-translation-analytics>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mentioned something
about being able to host a dashboard for us on one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Limn servers you
already have set up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Santhosh, I believe you
said earlier you have a script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you use to export the
data for the ULS analytics. If so can you share that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please in case we need a
similar script for CX so I don’t have to write a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new script from scratch?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Pau, @Amir There is a
section called High priorities for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product management
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/analytics#High_priorities_for_product_management>
on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Content translation
analytics page. Did these priorities come from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside the team or does
this just represent our own internal view of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high priorities? If the
latter, have these priorities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been reviewed by anyone
outside the team? I think we are safe to proceed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with our current plan,
but it would be good to have product sign off on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things more generally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel Sahleen, Software
Engineer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Language Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jsahleen(a)wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
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list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau Giner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interaction Designer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>> --
>>> Pau Giner
>>> Interaction Designer
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
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